From: "Anthony & Jill Cryan" <cryanaj@ozemail

From: "Anthony & Jill Cryan" <cryanaj@ozemail.com.au> | Organization:

The Adjutant's Desk Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 23:10:54 +1000 Subject: Re: [CRYAN] The "Reply Button" etc Reply-to: cryanaj@ozemail.com.au To:

CRYAN-L@rootsweb.com

FamSpack wrote:

> As always the gems are embedded........am planning a short visit to

> Australia to see family via Perth, then the coast Sydney to

> Brisbane......I rather fancy the train or bus journey Perth to

Sydney.> What do those with more experience than I think ?

A lurker speaks..... ; )Not a lot of experience on such travel, but suffice to say that a bus

from Perth to Sydney would not be in contention.

Not knowing your time constraints, a train or plane would be the go.

When will you be visiting Brisbane ? If time permits we could meet

up for drinks, a BBQ or something with my family.

tcAnthony CryanMorningside, Brisbane, Qld, Australia

(GGSon of Domnick Cryan of Gurteen, Sligo)

Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 12:08:42 PST From: Karen McElrath <K.McElrath@Queens-Belfast.AC.UK> | To: CRYAN-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Unidentified subject!

Forwarded Message:

From: Karen McElrath <kmcelrat@fujin.qub.ac.uk>

Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 01:29:31 PST

Subject: To: CRYAN-L@rootsweb.com

hello:I recently came across Patrick Joseph Cryan, born 2 December

1903, in Brogher, County Sligo. His parents were Anne Cosgrove and John

Cryan. Patrick Joseph Cryan emigrated to the US, where he lived in

Swampscott, Massachusetts, with Patrick S. Cryan and his family at 45

Pleasant Street. (Related, no doubt, but not father and

son).

Patrick Joseph Cryan resided in the Swampscott area until

the 1950s. He may have moved to Boston although he died in Florida in the

1970s.(Please note that I discovered Patrick's birthplace

(Brogher, County Sligo), by obtaining a copy of his application for (US) Social

Security. The application also included his parents' names.)

Has anyone come across Patrick Joseph Cryan's parents' names

- John and Annie Cosgrove Cryan? Also, I am wondering if someone might know

where Brogher is (to save me a phone call to the County Sligo tourist

board!!).I also have a few death/marriage certificates for Cryans in

various parts of Massachusetts which list parents' names. Perhaps they might

be useful to someone.

1. Thomas Cryan, born circa 1836 in Ireland. Parents:

Connor Cryan and Mary

Scanlon (?)

2. Mary Cryan, born circa 1869 in Ireland. Married Thomas

Jordan in Lynn, Mass.

Mary Cryan's parents: Thomas Cryan.

3. James Cryan, born circa 1803 in Ireland. Died 1891 in

Taunton, Mass. Parents:

Kate and Luke Cryan, Ireland.

Many thanks,Karen McElrath

From: "Michael Tobin" <tobinmi@hotmail.com> | Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 17:25:15 PST

Subject: [CRYAN] Re: John Cryan and Annie Cosgrove To: CRYAN-L@rootsweb.com

Hello Karen,Brougher is a townland in the parish of Keash (and formerly in the old

parish of Toomour). This is most likely the place that you are

referring to.I haven't come across John Cryan and Annie Cosgrove before. They should

most likely be listed on the 1901 census if their son Patrick Joseph was

born in 1903.The Griffith's Valuation of the 1850's lists a few Cryans and

Cosgrave's in Brougher, renting from Viscount Lorton :-

1. Patrick Cryan

2. James Cosgrave, sen.

3. Roger Cryan

4. James Cosgrave, jun.

[The above 4, along with 6 others, are listed as a group as renting 211

acres, 1 rood and 13 perches, although the rent for each is given

separately. I'm not sure why Griffiths does this - perhaps some of the

other listers can comment.]

5. Bridget Cryan

6. Patrick Cryan, sen.

7. Mary Cryan

8. Patrick Cryan, jun.

9. James Cryan, jun.

10. James Cryan, sen.

[Above 6 listed as a group with 1 other, renting 93 acres of land]

11. Martin Cryan

I think it would be reasonable to assume that the John Cryan and Annie

Cosgrave were connected to the first group above and were from

neighbouring farms. The pre-1900 Church records would most likely give the

connection between these people and John and Annie.

Hope this helps.Best regards,Michael

From: "Michael Tobin" <tobinmi@hotmail.com> | Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 17:42:28 PST

Subject: [CRYAN] Cryan gathering ??? To: CRYAN-L@rootsweb.com

Since 3 or 4 of the list members are based in Ireland, would any of you

be interested in arranging to meet up in Ireland sometime this Summer ??

I think it would be nice to meet up and chat in person about the

genealogy research. I'm not suggesting this as a Cryan convention or anything

like that, as I think that would take a significant amount of time and

effort to setup, with probably a year's notice so that people from other

countries might be able to travel to it if they were already planning on visiting

Ireland.All I have in mind, is an informal get together at which we could meet,

discuss our progress, take along any useful records, photos, history

etc. We might be able to bring along one or two interested relatives also.

If any one is interested, perhaps we could combine it with research in

either Sligo or Boyle libraries. I think we all probably have things we

want to look up there, so having one or the other of these towns as the

venue probably makes sense.

What do you think ?regardsMichael

==== CRYAN Mailing List ====

Surnames being rsrchd: Croidheain, Craigen/Creighan, Crawn/Craun,

Crane, Crean, Craen, Creen-e, Cre(a)g(h)an, Cre(a)han, Cro(u)ghan,

Crain-e, MacCroghan/McCrohan, Crowen, and Cryan-s.

From: "Roger Cryan" <cryan@avana.net> | Subject: Re: [CRYAN] Re: John Cryan and Annie Cosgrove Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 21:18:00 -0500 To: CRYAN-L@rootsweb.com

Michael, Could you tell us exactly for what year is your Griffith's listing

forBrougher? My great-grandfather James is listed in the 1857 Griffiths

as aleaseholder in Ballinanultaugh, Roscommon; but he was married in 1853

inSligo.James' childless eldest son (also James) left the Ballinanultaugh lease

to amore or less distant nephew (another James) from Brogher; so your

listingmight contain family.

As near as I can tell, there were related Cryans that were back and

forthbetween Sligo and Roscommon (all these places are within a few miles of

eachother), depending on where a lease "with the name on it" became

available.Does this make any sense? Roger Cryan

From: Jill Devito <devito@uta.edu> | Subject: RE: [CRYAN] Cryan gathering ???

Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 10:48:26 -0600 To: CRYAN-L@rootsweb.com

Karen, Michael, and other Ireland travelers,

If you plan a gathering in Ireland (or just want to talk to another

Cryan insearch of his roots), please look up my grandfather, Paul Cryan. He

wasborn and raised in Massachussetts, and raised his own family in

Connecticut,but a few years ago he fell in love with Ireland and moved there!

Here is his information:

Paul CryanDrumdooMohill, Leitrim011-353-78-32096

paulcryan@eircom.net

Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 09:31:37 PST From: Karen McElrath <K.McElrath@Queens-Belfast.AC.UK> | Subject: Re: [CRYAN] Cryan gathering ??? To: CRYAN-L@rootsweb.com

re: cryan gathering

michael: i think your suggestion is an excellent one.

you and i reside in ireland but perhaps people who reside in

other countries might be planning a trip here anyway. it

would be great if we could meet at least for a day/night in

sligo or roscommon, the home of several of our ancestors.

karen

Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 09:34:27 PST From: Karen McElrath <K.McElrath@Queens-Belfast.AC.UK> | Subject: Re: [CRYAN] Re: John Cryan and Annie Cosgrove To:

CRYAN-L@rootsweb.com

received the following infoyesterday:

RE;1901 CENSUS FOR BROUGHER JOHN CRYAN AGE 24 SISTER BRIDGET

AGE 21; THIS ISMOST PROBABLY YOUR JOHN, THERE WERE ALSO COSGROVES IN

BROUGHER.AT THAT TIMEI BELIEVE THERE WAS TWO OTHER CHILDREN JOHN WHO STAYED WITH THE COSGROVES

AND A MARY WHO WENT WITH PATRICK TO AMERICA THEIR PARENTS

DIED VERY YOUNGJOHN CRYAN MARRIED ABREHENY FROM BEARLOUGH DRUMRAT I HAVE LETTERS FROM THEIR

FAMILYSORRY THAT;S ALL FOR NOW

PATRICK CRYANS WE HAVE BEEN IN TOUGH BEFORE

From: LB3105@aol.com | Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 14:01:48 EST

Subject: [CRYAN] Cryan Family To: CRYAN-L@rootsweb.com

Subj: Re: [CRYAN] Re: John Cryan and Annie Cosgrove

Date: 01/26/2000 9:46:56 AM Eastern Standard Time

From: LB3105To: cryan@avana.net

Roger,

I just read your letter to Michael. I'm curious as to your James

CRYAN. My GGrandfather was James CRYAN also. Could there possibly be a

connection here?Desendants of James Cryan

Generation No. 1

1. JAMES CRYAN was born Abt. 1838 , Roscommon, Ireland, and died Abt.

1885 in, Co. Roscommon, Ireland. He married MARY FOLEY Abt. 1868 in

Templevaney, Co.,Roscommon, Ireland.. She was born Abt. 1839, Ireland,

Child of JAMES CRYAN and MARY FOLEY ( this is the only one I knowabout)

2. i. ANNE CRYAN, b. April 04, 1869, Boyle, County Roscommon,

Ireland; d. September 19, 1915, Bronx, New York. I have a copy of my Grandmother's

her birth Certificate. It states that her father's occupation as a Tailor.

They were living in the Townland of Treen, Co. Roscommon, when she was

born? Not too sure where this would be?

(No further record of additional children born, appears at the Catholic

Church in Boyle after Anne Cryan was born. Nor sure if they emigrated

to America or moved somewhere else?)

Generation No. 2

2. ANNE CRYAN (JAMES1) was born April 04, 1869 in Boyle, County

Roscommon, Ireland, and died September 19, 1915 in Bronx, New York. She married

(1)

FRANCIS JAMES KEANEY Abt. 1893 in Brooklyn, New York City, son of JOHN

KEANEY and MARGARET FLYNN. He was born June 24, 1861 in Riverstown, County

Sligo, Ireland, and died November 23, 1937 in Bath, New York.

Children of ANNE CRYAN and FRANCIS KEANEY are:

i. JOHN B KEANEY, b. Abt. 1894, New YorkCity, New York; d. May 14,

1956, New YorkCity, New York.

3. ii. FRANCIS (FRANK) JAMES KEANEY, JR., b. June 28, 1896, Brooklyn,

New York; d. June 12, 1958, New York City, New York.

iii. ELIZABETH (BESSIE) KEANEY, b. August 17, 1898, Manhattan,

New York; d. Unknown, Bronx, New York.

iv. MARGARET KEANEY, b. 1903, New York, New York; d. June 06, 1920,

New York, New York.

v. VALENTINE KEANEY, b. Abt. 1904, New York City, New York; d. New

York City, New York.

vi. JOSEPH KEANEY, b. 1905, New York City, New York; d. New York

City, New York; m. AGNES ?.

vii. GEORGE KEANEY, b. Abt. 1908, New York, New York; d. New

York, New York.

4. viii. ANNA ELIZABETH KEANEY, b. November 23, 1910, Bronx, New

York; d. April 14, 1979, Long Island, New York.

Knowing how the Irish named their children, do any of these children's

names look familiar to you?

I am planning to attend a KEANEY Reunion in 2002 to be held in Co.

Sligo, Ireland. I is being hosted by the KEANEY's in that area of Ireland &

also Dr. Francis Keaney, who lives in London, England. Hope to visit the

town of Boyle, Co. Roscommon while I am there. I know there is a connection

between the two familles. I found one Aunt named Mary Cryan. who was

a witness at one of the Keaney's baptism for one of their children.

Warm Regards,Barbara

Reply-to: "FamSpack" < > From: "FamSpack" < > | Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 08:47:17 -0000 Subject:

[CRYAN] LDS website To: CRYAN-L@rootsweb.com

Hi, For those who need the address ...

http://www.familysearch.org/

Eve

Reply-to: "FamSpack" < > From: "FamSpack" < > | Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 09:08:41 -0000

Subject: [CRYAN] Re Cryan Gathering To: CRYAN-L@rootsweb.com

Dear All,I think that a "Cryan Gathering" is a super idea . I especially like

theidea of an informal day set aside in a particular place. However as it

isunlikely that I will be able to attend this year, why not set aside say

(just a random suggestion) the first Saturday in August each year, with

aplace say a pub , to meet each year and then people can plan their

visits toIreland round the date..

I do not like the idea of a "convention" with organised lectures and

visits.......far too costly and overwhelming and a strain on libraries

andother places of interest. A crowd all wanting to look at the same

"historicdocuments" will soon destroy them and the goodwill. I would much prefer

togo to these places in the "off season".

I would however love to meet other CRYANs....... all we need is a date

andplace and time for a CRYAN DAY.... and hey ho we will attend.........sometime.

Great idea, thank you MichaelEve

From: RoCryan@aol.com | Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 12:24:23 EST

Subject: [CRYAN] Re Cryan Gathering To: CRYAN-L@rootsweb.com

Great Idea Michael, how about at

<A HREF="http://www.nci.ie/yp/fullpage/y4694.htm">Cryan's Riverside

holidays in ireland accommodation in ireland bed and breakfas</A>

Rosalie

From: "Michael Tobin" <tobinmi@hotmail.com> | Subject: Re: [CRYAN] Re: John Cryan and Annie Cosgrove Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 15:44:57 PST To: CRYAN-L@rootsweb.com

Roger,As far as I know, the Griffith's Valuation in Sligo was conducted in

1858. Do you know what year your gran-uncle James left the Ballinanultaugh

lease to the James from Brougher? This might help you to solve the puzzle.

Also, when you say he left the lease to "more or less to a distant

nephew", I'm a little confused as to whether you mean he was a distant cousin or

an actual nephew.You've probably ruled out the following yourself, but here goes. The

name Roger Cryan also shows up in the same group of Cryans in Brougher as 2

James who were jointly renting 211 acres. Is Roger a family name in your

family, handed down from generation to generation ? If so, might it be likely

that this group of people are your relatives given that the name Roger

occurs there and that Roger is not a very common name amongst the Cryans ?

If anyone can explain why some people are listed in bunches in the

Griffith's Valuation, it might help things.

Hope this helps,

Michael

From: "Michael Tobin" <tobinmi@hotmail.com> | Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 16:56:54 PST

Subject: [CRYAN] RE: Cryan gathering To: CRYAN-L@rootsweb.com

Well, it sounds like a few people might be interested in some sort of

informal get together this year.I like Eve's suggestion of an annual date on which a get together might

take place, so that people who might be travelling to Ireland would know in

advance if they wanted to include it in their itinerary. We could

provisionally say that we'll have it on such a date, and then each year

see if there is sufficient interest in order for it to take place. Even if

only 2 from the list can meet up, I think its still worthwhile.

I also like Rosalie's idea of people staying in Cryan's guesthouse in

Carrick-on-Shannon, which is only a few miles from Boyle and is quite a

scenic place. I have heard good reports of this guesthouse in the past.

I will telephone it to find out what its rates are like and how far in

advance people might need to book it.

The first Saturday in August sounds fine to me as the regular annual

day for a get together, but I see a few disadvantages with it. I think (but am

not 100% certain) that the public libraries may be closed on Saturday. If

that is the case, it might be better to plan it on the first Friday in

August if we wanted to combine the day with a trip to Sligo or Boyle library.

What do others think ? Another factor to take into consideration is that the

first Monday in August is usually a public holiday in Ireland, so that

weekend is a particularly busy weekend. Perhaps the second Friday or Saturday in

August would be better so as to avoid that. Another point is that any weekend

in August is at the height of the tourist season in Ireland. A day in July

would be less busy, in my opinion.

If we can get an informal meeting set up, we'll certainly invite your

grandfather Jill. The more the merrier! I would hope to invite 1 or 2

of my relatives too, who are interested in family history.

I think one or two others on the list, in addition to Karen and myself,

are based in Ireland - so hopefully a few people from the list can meet up.

Any more suggestions or comments on the above?

regardsMichael

Reply-to: "FamSpack" < > From: "FamSpack" < > | Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 11:00:37 -0000 Subject:

[CRYAN] Re CRYAN gathering To: CRYAN-L@rootsweb.com

It is nice to see an idea develop.Local knowledge make a great deal of

difference.Cryans Inn in Carrick-on-Shannon has a website which , if it is still

theregives an address and telephone number- it also mentions that it is or

was a"singing pub" !!!Boyle also has a website with links - I got to these through a normal

searchengine.I also agree with Michael that Saturday is perhaps not the best day ,

however it may also be wise to take account of market days., when

accommodation may be full.

My other suggestion is to consider the evening before the CRYAN DAY

when onehas to be staying in the locallity and has to eat, as a "getting to

know youand planning session" ie chat over meal/drink

I am sure that the time(however many days you set aside) will fly by

andwill not be long enough so it may well be useful to be flexible.

If Michael is contacting the CRYANS PUB/INN/GUESTHOUSE perhaps they

couldgive times when they are less busy - which may help fixing a date.

I believe someone from the list has actually stayed at this place - I

vaguely remember an early email.Until again Eve

Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 10:42:13 PST From: Karen McElrath <K.McElrath@Queens-Belfast.AC.UK> | Reply-to: K.McElrath@Queens-Belfast.AC.UK Subject:

[CRYAN] Re: Cryan gathering To: CRYAN-L@rootsweb.com

michael: any time in july or august suits me this year as i will not

be going on holiday this year. is any US member of the list planning to visit

Ireland this summer? karen

From: ljstandak@webtv.net (Lyle Staehnke) | Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 10:47:18 -0800 (PST) Subject: [CRYAN] RE: CRYAN gathering To: CRYAN-L@rootsweb.com

Sure sounds good to me,it would be a very good reason to visit Ireland

again. I had the pleasure of visiting at Francis Cryans Inn at the

Carrick on Shannon. Really enjoyed it. Lyle

From: ljstandak@webtv.net (Lyle Staehnke) | Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 11:01:59 -0800 (PST)

Subject: Fwd: [CRYAN] Re CRYAN gathering To: CRYAN-L@rootsweb.com

Your right Karen,really enjoyed the stay. And Francis Cryan was a joy

tomeet, also met a nice gentleman padrick cryan.. Not sure of the first

name spellings... Lyle

Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 12:46:25 PST

From: Karen McElrath <K.McElrath@Queens-Belfast.AC.UK>

Reply-To: K.McElrath@Queens-Belfast.AC.UK

Old-To: CRYAN-L@rootsweb.com

Message-ID: <ECS10001291225B@fujin.qub.ac.uk>

I believe someone from the list has actually stayed at this place - I

> vaguely remember an early email.> Until again Eve

> was it Lyle who stayed there?karen

From: ljstandak@webtv.net (Lyle Staehnke) | Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 11:13:02 -0800 (PST)

Subject: [CRYAN] RE:Cryans Inn To: CRYAN-L@rootsweb.com

This should connect to Cryans Inn

http://www.nci.ie/yp/fullpage/y4694.htm

From: ljstandak@webtv.net (Lyle Staehnke) | Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 16:40:59 -0800 (PST)

Subject: [CRYAN] RE:Cryans Inn To: CRYAN-L@rootsweb.com

For the record,I never stayed over night at Carrick on Shannon.but

spentseveral hours there and stayed for dinner... At Cryans Inn..... Lyle

From: RoCryan@aol.com | Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 12:04:22 EST Subject: [CRYAN] Roger? To: CRYAN-L@rootsweb.com

Wasn't it Roger who stayed at Cryans and was wondering if it was

prospering. It certainly is a singing pub, when I visited in July'99, the hired

musicians allowed lots of time for the regulars' to serenade myself,

and my first first cousins, Cryan, Pat, Jane and Pam. Shawn sang all of

"Crying, Over You" to us among other things. Rosalie

From: "Roger Cryan" <cryan@avana.net> | Subject: Re: [CRYAN] Re: John Cryan and Annie Cosgrove Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 22:43:10 -0500 To: CRYAN-L@rootsweb.com

To Michael and Barabara:

1. My great great grandfather James Cryan was married to Honor(i)a

Beirne/Byrne in Sligo (Kilfree and Killaragt parish) in 1853. He shows

upin Ballinanultagh, Boyle, Roscommon, in the Griffith's Valuation for

1857.He was (presumably) dead by the 1901 Census, when Honoria Cryan shows

up asthe head of the household.Their son, another James Cryan, was born in 1859 and married Ann CryanfromBrougher townland in Ballinafad Parish (see below). I don't know how

closely they may have been related.

When they had no children, they took on Ann's "nephew", another James

Cryan;I don't know the exact relationship, but he was also from Brougher and

probably born about 1915 or 1920. He also had no children, but his

widowstill lives on the farm (where my great grandfather was born), and his

nephew Joe lives 2 or 3 miles away.

2. Here is a records problem for this branch of the family: Ballinafad

Parish straddles the Sligo/Roscommon line. Ballynanultagh (Boyle

Parish) isin Roscommon, but is within spitting distance of Brougher (Ballinafad

Parish, "historical name: Aghanagh"). This means the records, even for

aclose family are split among parishes and between counties. [By the

way,Kilfree and Killaragt parish was once much larger and may have included

Ballinafad.]

3. Is this the same Brougher that Micheal is talking about? I'm a bit

confused about this.

4. Another son of the first James Cryan was my great grandfather,

MartinCryan, born 1861 according to baptism records, 1864 according to

citizenshippapers, 1867 according to what he told his family, 1870 according to

whatthey told the 1920 census taker, and 1875 according to what the family

toldthe undertaker. Has anyone else on the list dealt with this kind of

nonsense?[He arrived in Boston in 1883, married Margaret Maloney in Lowell,

Massachusetts, USA, in 1893, and died in Lowell in 1936.]

5. No, I'm afraid Roger was not a name I inherited. It was my

mother'sidea, and no-one in my immediate family was aware of any previous Roger

Cryans.I am quite interested in your responses. Roger

Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 00:38:33 PST From: Karen McElrath <K.McElrath@Queens-Belfast.AC.UK> | Reply-to: K.McElrath@Queens-Belfast.AC.UK

Subject: [CRYAN] Irish genealogy on the www To: CRYAN-L@rootsweb.com

A new website has links to some very good sites for Irish genealogy.

the website can be found at: http://www.coiste.com

although it is organised by ex-prisoners, click on 'Links' and then

click on 'Ireland Today' to find the genealogy sites.

karen

Reply-to: "FamSpack" < > From: "FamSpack" < > | Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 09:26:57 -0000

Subject: [CRYAN] Re James CRYAN dates To: CRYAN-L@rootsweb.com

Yes I have have the problem of different ages being given at different

times. One age on a marriage certificate , he then aged with a

differentbirth date on the 1881 census and put on another 5 years when he died

thefollowing year in 1882.

However one does not get a baptism record before a person was born, so

thatis likely to be the nearest one gets to a date of birth, and in James

caseit is likely that the other dates are incorrect.

There is a circumstance that could account for differing dates and the

datesnot tying up with records.

In many families the naming pattern is tied up with the ancestry and is

intended to honour different members of the previous generations..vis

...eldest son and daughter receiving the paternal grandparents names

and thesecond son and daughter, the maternal granparents' names or vice versa,

thenext children got the parents' names and the aunts and uncles etc. If

achild died very often the next child to be born was given that name. If

thechild died very young there may be a second of the same name perhaps a

yearor so later. If a child died at say 6 yrs of age, the name may be

repeatedlater in the family.

Conversely, a second child of the same name in a family very often

meantthat the child of the earlier name had died.

In the case of Honoria Byrne's family,I have 8 children Martin(no5)

1861,Hanoria 1863, John 1865 and MaryJane(no 8) b 2 Jan 1870.

There is therefore an outside possibility that the date your Martin

gave hisfamily, could reflect that a second child called Martin had been born

intothe family...but I have not found a record of it.

On the other hand there are other reasons for discrepancies....a person

maylose count of the years if they do not celebrate

birthdays.......wife/girlfriend may be quite a bit younger and he may

wantto be closer in age or the lady's parents may have made it

"convenient"......there may have been advantages like easier

immegrationacceptance if one is of a particular age....jobs may have an age

limit.....etc. etcThis is just intended to be a scheme of lateral

thinking................usually the simplest explanation is the right

one.Happy hunting Eve

From: RoCryan@aol.com | Block address Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 12:24:23 EST

Subject: [CRYAN] Re Cryan Gathering To: CRYAN-L@rootsweb.com

Great Idea Michael, how about at

<A HREF="http://www.nci.ie/yp/fullpage/y4694.htm">Cryan's Riverside

holidays in ireland accommodation in ireland bed and breakfas</A>

Rosalie

Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 06:50:57 -0800 (PST) From: Caoimhghin O Croidheain <caoimhghin@yahoo.com> | Block address Subject: [CRYAN] Crehane

To: CRYAN-L@rootsweb.com

hiJust spotted Crehane on email from Walsh-List. Anytakers????

caoimhghinps I think meeting up would be great and will try my

best to be there.

From: "Terry McDaniel" <twmac@goodnet.com> | Block

address Subject: John Walsh and/or Judith Cormack Date:

Sat, 29 Jan 2000 17:54:14 -0700 To: WALSH-L@rootsweb.com

My great grandparents are John Walsh and Judith

Cormack. Her name islistedas Judith Cormack Crehane. Does anyone know of a

county calledCrehane?Any info is appreciated. A son, Daniel Walsh was

baptized in theCatholicChurch and the baptisimaal Registar if Cappamore,

County of Limerick,Ireland.Terrie of Prescott Arizona USA

Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 09:08:16 -0600 From: Harvey.Wohlwend@intl.sematech.org | Block address Subject: RE: [CRYAN] Re: Cryan gathering To:

CRYAN-L@rootsweb.

Karen,

Actually my wife and I will be traveling from the United States to

Ireland thissummer.We will be arriving Dublin on May 28th and departing Dublin on June

11th. Afterspending a couple of days in Dublin our plans are to rent a car and

tour theisland clockwise. We are tentatively planning on reaching Boyle about

June 6thor 7th. I am NOT suggesting the Cryan gathering be scheduled for that

time butwould welcome any travel tips since this is our first time in Ireland.

Our plansare to stay at Bed & Breakfast places. Do we need to make advance

reservationsthat time of year?Best regards,Harvey WohlwendAustin, Texas

ggrandson of Danial Cryan b:1804

From: "John Sheerin" <jsheerin@erols.com> | Block address Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 14:32:59 -0500 Subject: [CRYAN] Re: Cryan Gathering?? To:

CRYAN-L@rootsweb.co

Having received the following message from Michael Tobin about a "Cryan

Gathering" I would like to add my comments.

My wife and I will be in Ireland from 01 to 20 June this summer and

wouldlove to meet any and all CRYAN family researchers.

Please drop me an email,Thanks and hope to hear from you.

Jake Sheerin, (originally from Lowell Mass.)

Edgewater, Maryland

From: "Michael Tobin" <tobinmi@hotmail.com> | Block address Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 15:34:32 PST Subject: [CRYAN] more on Cryan gathering To: CRYAN-L@rootsweb.com

I haven't been able to telephone the Cryan pub/restaurant/B&B in

Carrick-on-Shannon yet, and will be travelling for the rest of this

week - so I will contact them at the weekend to enquire when might be the best

time to get bookings there, and what the rates are. It would be nice to have

Cryans as the focal point for the get-together, but I don't think that

the availability of rooms in Cryan's will be a showstopper for whenever we

want to meet. There are loads of guesthouses in Carrick-on-Shannon and one

or two hotels also. Even if we can't get accomodation in Cryan's, we can

always eat and drink there!

>From recent postings to the list, I have compiled the following list

of people who might be available to meet (including myself at the end!) :-

Karen - In July or August

Caoimhin -

Harvey - In Ireland from May 28 to June 11.

Tentative plan to be in Boyle on June 6th or 7th.

John - In Ireland from 1 to 20 June

Michael - June, July or August

Is there any one else on the list based in Ireland who would be

interested in meeting up ? Is there anyone else outside of Ireland planning on

travelling here in the Summer ? If you post your plans to the list,

perhaps we can organise the gathering to suit people's travel plans.

We probably won't be able to fix a date such that it suits everyone and

for future years, I think we should go with Eve's suggestion of having a

regular day each year on which we would provisionally plan an informal

get-together - so that people outside Ireland can plan around it. For this year, it

would be nice if we could pick the date to suit people who have already made

travel plans.Before suggesting a date, I'll wait to see if anyone else has plans to

be in Ireland this Summer. Then we can decide what to do based on who's

around and on how busy the tourist season might be at that time.

regardsMichael

From: "Michael Tobin" <tobinmi@hotmail.com> | Block address Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 15:51:31 PST Subject: [CRYAN] Re: Brougher townland To: CRYAN-L@rootsweb.com

Roger,I have 2 maps which are part of the Ordnance Survey Discovery series of

maps, and which include the parishes and townlands around Ballymote and

Boyle. Unfortunately, I left them at my mother's house in Sligo when I

was last up there, so I cannot check them at the moment!

Its quite possible that I am incorrect in saying that Brougher is part

of the parish of Keash. It was part of the old parish of Toomour, at least

some of which is now part of Keash.

I did a lookup on the townland database at http://www.seanruad.com/

and it only lists one Brougher in Sligo. It gives the old parish of

Toomour as the parish name.

I know of at least one address that is given as Broher, Ballinafad, but

this does not necessarily mean that its in the parish of Ballinafad as often

times, if a townland is near a town, the name of the town is included

in the postal address as that is where the nearest post office is located.

Perhaps others on the list know the definite answer to this.

Hope this helps.regardsMichael

Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 15:54:56 PST From: Karen McElrath <K.McElrath@Queens-Belfast.AC.UK> | Block address Subject: RE: [CRYAN] Cryan gathering To: CRYAN-L@rootsweb.com

Harvey: i don't know if this visit will be your first to

ireland...i visited here several times before i moved and

never once had any reservations at b & bs. i found that i

often would spend a few extra days in a particular place and

hated the idea of having to move on before i was ready. i

always was able to get a place to stay despite having

visited here in july and august, the peak months. if you

have not been here, my personal favorite is the west coast

of ireland, from kerry to donegal. just gorgeous. you

mention that you are renting a car. there are few

automatics here, so you need to specify that with the rental

car company if you want an automatic. also, the car

insurance can be high. my credit card covered all isurance

overseas, as long as i paid with the card. and remember

that distances are recorded in kilometers in the south (and

miles in the north). let me know if you plan to make it to

the north i can give you some tips. no doubt you will have

a wonderful time and return again and again.karen

From: Fatarm@aol.com | Block address Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 22:21:46 EST

Subject: [CRYAN] MD, VA USA rsrchrs and PBS' 'Touching Evil' & Creegan

To: CRYAN-L@rootsweb.com

Jake's message today reminds me that there are several of us Cryan,

Cregan, et al. researchers here in the mid-Atlantic states. Maybe a

rendez-vous sometime at an LDS location or the National Archives might be an idea

whose time has come. If nothing else, it will keep our envy in check for

those of you in Ireland this summer!

Has anyone else noticed in the current Mystery series playing on PBS

that the detective's name is David Creegan? It's a Brit-production -- just

think! We now have a fiction character to add to the databases! -Leslie

PBS' website: www.pbs.org or: <A

HREF="http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/mystery/programs/evil/index.html">MYSTERY!:Touching Evil</A>

From: Fatarm@aol.com | Block address Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 22:59:41 EST

Subject: [CRYAN] Sligo Co. webpage on rootsweb To: CRYAN-L@rootsweb.com

For the Sligo researchers in the crowd:

<A HREF="http://www.rootsweb.com/~irlsli/index.html">Sligo County

Ireland Index</A> or: <A

HREF="http://www.rootsweb.com/~irlsli/index.html">http://www.rootsweb.c

om/~irlsli/index.html</A>

There are some nice photos of churches and the beginning of Griffith's

for the County, it appears. -Leslie

From: RoCryan@aol.com | Block address Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 15:21:25 EST

Subject: [CRYAN] East Coast Cryan Get together To: CRYAN-L@rootsweb.com

Leslie and others, I was lucky enough to get to Ireland Last July and

know I won't be going again soon. I'd definately attend a get together in

Boston and could provide accommodations for several just a quick subway ride

south of boston. Rosalie

Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 21:21:54 PST From: Karen McElrath <K.McElrath@Queens-elfast.AC.UK> | Block address Reply-to: K.McElrath@Queens-Belfast.AC.UK

Subject: Re: [CRYAN] more on Cryan gathering To: CRYAN-L@rootsweb.com

On Mon, 31 Jan 2000 15:34:32 PST Michael Tobin wrote:

michael: looks like i am the only one for whom june is difficult. if

so, please settle on a june date anyway. my mom and my sister are coming over in june

and that's my last working month so it's a bit difficult to take off. however, i

might still make it for a june date as sligo/roscommon are only 3 hours away or so. karen

From: "Kevin J. Crean" <Kevin_J._Crean@HUD.GOV> | Block address Date:

Wed, 2 Feb 2000 11:51:26 -0500 Subject: [CRYAN] US Eastcoast Cryans Get-together

I am a Long Island, NY Crean who might also be interested in an

east-coastgathering this year or in the future. I haven't yet made it to the

NationalArchives either, in D.C. or the New York City branch. A gathering

might be theperfect excuse.

To: CRYAN-L@rootsweb.com

cc: (bcc: Kevin J. Crean/CPD/NYN/HUD)

Subject: [CRYAN] US Eastcoast Cryans Get-together

Leslie,Definitely a good idea to help us not feel too bad about not being with

theothers in Ireland.I live on Long Island and haven't yet had the opportunity to visit the

National Archives in Washington, DC. Boston might also be a good locale

toattract all those Lowell Cryans.

Maureen McCourt Nantista

(my Mom was a Cryan)

Huntington, NY

>Jake's message today reminds me that there are several of us Cryan,

Cregan,>et al. researchers here in the mid-Atlantic states. Maybe a

rendez-vous>sometime at an LDS location or the National Archives might be an idea

whose>time has come. If nothing else, it will keep our envy in check for

those of>you in Ireland this summer!

From:

Jill Devito <devito@uta.edu> | Block address Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 11:09:51 -0600

Subject: [CRYAN] East Coast gathering To: CRYAN-L@rootsweb.com

If there is a possibility of an East Coast get together, can I put in a

votefor June? I live in Texas, but if all goes well I will be working in

Albany for six weeks in May and June.Jill

Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 12:56:33 -0500 From: Maureen McCourt Nantista <mornan@nais.com> | Block address Subject: [CRYAN] Cryan Gathering

To: CRYAN-L@rootsweb.com

Fellow Listers,Even though it's not likely I'll be making it over this year, I think

thegathering of Cryans is a super idea!!!

While I'm not very familiar with the seasonal weather in Ireland, my

onlyinput is that for future years, all things being equal, you might want

toconsider having it in the spring or fall just to make it a little

easierfor those of us coming from a distance since airline prices and seat

availability can present a problem in July and August.

Also next year the 4th Irish Genealogical Congress is taking place in

Dublin 18-23 September 2001 and some of us will probably be coming to

Ireland at that time. Good luck!! I'm looking forward to meeting you, if not this time, then

certainly in coming years.Maureen McCourt Nantista(my Mom was a Cryan)Huntington, NY

From: Iliktotick@aol.com | Block address Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 15:31:03 EST

Subject: [CRYAN] A Cregan Here To: CRYAN-L@rootsweb.com

Hi Group:I will be attending my husband's family reunion in DC in July. I live

in Pittsburgh, however, so it wouldn't be difficult for me to attend a get

together with my cousins anytime of the year. My only obstacle might

be my job which takes me all over the country. If I can make it though, I

will be there.Joanne Tyler-TuckerMy Mom was a Cregan

From: Fatarm@aol.com | Block address Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 16:57:01 EST

Subject: [CRYAN] Creane and Timlin To: CRYAN-L@rootsweb.com

As advertized on another mailing list, here are some Creane's:

<A HREF="http://www.seanet.com/~cobra/">Timlin Genealogy</A>

-http://www.seanet.com/~cobra/

click on "RESEARCHED MATERIALS, then CASTLECONNOR"

(Note: the researche materials button is not always displayed in full,

but was the lowest right hand button of the upper left buttons when I last

looked at this page).-Leslie

From: "Roger Cryan" <cryan@avana.net> | Block address Subject:

Re: [CRYAN] Re: Brougher townland Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 23:27:02 -0500

To: CRYAN-L@rootsweb.com

Michael, You are probably right about the postal address (Brougher,

Ballinafad). Do the Brougher listings in Griffiths include any Rorkes?

Does anyone else know anything about the Brougher Cryans as far

back asthe 1850's? Roger

From: Kmcrehan@aol.com | Block address Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 09:26:22 EST

Subject: [CRYAN] Crehan To: CRYAN-L@rootsweb.com

Are there any Crehan's out there researching their family tree? I have

not had much luck and would like to find something. I am looking for

Crehan's that came from Woodbrook-Newbridge Co. Galway. Thanks Kerry

Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 09:44:47 PST From: Karen McElrath <K.McElrath@Queens-Belfast.AC.UK> | Block address Subject: Re: [CRYAN] Re: Brougher townland

To: CRYAN-L@rootsweb.com

michael: i too am interested in the Brougher Cryans, as i

suspect that my line originated from there. my first names

are consistent with those found in the Griffith's Valuation.

Also, my ancestors were somehow related to Patrick Cryan of

Swampscott, Mass. who listed his birthplace as Brougher.

obviously i have more work to do in this respect and will

keep you informed of any relevant data i come across.karen

From: "John Sheerin" <jsheerin@erols.com> | Block address Date:

Fri, 4 Feb 2000 00:11:04 -0500 Subject: [CRYAN] Re: (CRYAN) Re: Mary Cryand and James Brennan To: CRYAN-L@rootsweb.com

Submitting email on my G/GrandmotherMary Cryan one more time.

Mary Cryan was born circa 1850 in the Boyle area

and her father was Michael Cryan. When Mary

married my G/Grandfather James Brennan on

07 Feb 1870 at St. Joseph's Catholic Church in Boyle,

she was living in lower Deerpark, near Boyle.

The witnesses to wedding were Mr. Brennan

and Margaret McManus. She Immigrated to states

probably after husband James Brennan died.

Mary died in Lowell, Mass on 02 MAY 1927,

and was buried on 05 MAY 1927, at

St. Patrick’s Cemetery, Lowell MA

I don't have any other information on Mary's

family. Anybody got anything on this family?

Thanks for your help,Jake Sheerin

Reply-to: "FamSpack" < > From: "FamSpack" > | Block address Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 11:55:07 -0000 Subject:

[CRYAN] James CRYAN and Honoria BIERNE To: CRYAN-L@rootsweb.com

Hi All,I seems that lots of the Lowell CRYANs are descended from James and

Honoria.As you know I have been transcribing the 1901 census for the Boyle area

fortheLeitrim andRoscommon list.I have now found the following entries

whichwill interest you,particularly those who are interested in the RORKES.

It also is an example of folk having different ages at different times

1901 census

Entry for Ballynanultagh no 1

Cryan Honora Head 60 RC read only Farmer widow

born Co.Ros speaks Irish and English

Cryan James son 30 RC r & w Farmer

Unmarried b Co Ros E

Cryan John son 20 RC r & w farmer

b Co Ros E

Cryan MaryJane d 18 RC r & w -

b Co Ros E

Ballynanultagh no 2

O'Rorke Hugh Head 70 RC r & w Farmer m

b Co Ros

Bridget wife 53 RC r & w

m b Co Sligo

John son 24 RC r & w farmer

u b Co Ros

Patrick son 22 RC r & w ..

u b Co Ros

Maria d 27 RC r & w

u b Co Ros

Annie d 25 RC r & w ..

u b Co Ros

(the parents of Hugh are Farrel Rorke and Bridget Wynn.....both

surnames of

various spellings)

NOTE according to baptismal records

James CRYAN p James C and Honora Bierne c 2 Oct 1859

therefore he must in 1901 be 41/2 or thereabouts

John CRYAN p James C and Honora Bierne c 30 Aug 1865

therefore he must be 36 or thereabouts

Mary Jane CRYAN p James C and Honora Beirne born 2 Jan 1870

therefore she must be 31 or therabouts

MORAL do not believe all you see or hear, check it out.

If a record exists the person must have beeen alive at the time. They

aremistaken to claim to be younger then the record UNLESS ....as has been

saidbefore....the earlier child died and a later child was given the same

name.In the above family we have christening or birth records for all 8

children of Honora Beirne.

I hope that this helps.There are other Rorkes in the next townland Ballylugnagan.

These will all come to the Leitrim and Roscommon list in the next few

months. The rest of Boyle town is due shortly I missed the 5 Jan

update..Also we hope to be able to enter the workhouse records....paupers

,infirmaryand asylum.....for the viewers to pick out people missing from home at

thetime if the census. Unfortunately only the initial s are given but

there isother info like age, infirmity and townland in some cases.

http://www.leitrim-roscommon.com ...........click on this to enter the

siteHappy hunting Eve

PS having looked at Roger's mail re James' I had better give all the

children of James CRYAN and Honora Bierne m 8Feb 1853 in Gurteen RC

1. Michael christened/baptised 5 Nov 1854

2. Bridget(called Delia in Lowell) c 24 Feb 1856

3. Anne c 13 Dec 1857

4 James c 2 Oct 1859

5 Martin c 29 Sept 1861

6. Hanoria c 22 Nov 1863

7 John born 17 Aug 1865

8. MaryJane born 2 Jan 1870

>From the info that has been passing around re Lowell , obituaries and

suchMichael, Bridget and Martin went to Lowell and their family trees can

beconstructed from the obituary information....without looking it up

againthey mention the family left at home

One of the children of these is mentioned as living in Swampscot so I

suggest that there is probably a dynasty there. Does that include Tom?

In my mails I have also heard of a Michael who lived in Woonsocket MA

atabout the turn of the century, with several daughters who could have

beensecretaries. Has anyone else heard of these folk?Eve

From: SCK32160@aol.com Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 13:30:57 EST Subject:

[CRYAN] Creans from Sligo To: CRYAN-L@rootsweb.com

Hi Everyone,,I am new to this list. I am seeking genealogical connections for my

Great-Greatgrandmother Catherine Crean from Tawnalaughta, Sligo. I

know she married William Farris in 1866 and had children, James 1867, Honoria

1870 Thomas, William, Catherine, Mary Ann, Michael (Mickey) and the youngest

Margaret 1887 (My Great-grandmother.) I have no definitive answers on

Catherine Crean's parents or siblings. From what I see there were no

Creans on Griffith's from Tawnalaughta. Any info on possible Crean relations

from the is welcome.

Related Family names- Farris, Crean, Brady, Murray, Egan. Thank you, ChrisKennedy NY US

Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 12:59:42 PST From: Karen McElrath <K.McElrath@Queens-Belfast.AC.UK> | Block address Subject: Re: [CRYAN] James CRYAN and Honoria BIERNE

From: "Michael Tobin" <tobinmi@hotmail.com> | Subject: Re: [CRYAN] Re: Brougher townland Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 16:51:01 PST To: CRYAN-L@rootsweb.com

RogerI had a quick scan of the Griffith's listing for the townland of

Brougher and then for the whole parish of Toomour and it does not list any

Rorke's as far as I can see.regardsMichael

>From: "Roger Cryan" <cryan@avana.net>>To: CRYAN-L@rootsweb.com

>Subject: Re: [CRYAN] Re: Brougher townland>Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 23:27:02 -0500

>>Michael,> You are probably right about the postal address (Brougher,

>Ballinafad).> Do the Brougher listings in Griffiths include any Rorkes?

> Does anyone else know anything about the Brougher Cryans as far

back >as>the 1850's?> Roger

>From: "Roger Cryan" <cryan@avana.net> Subject: Re: [CRYAN] James CRYAN and Honoria BIERNE Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 23:28:41 -0500 To: CRYAN-L@rootsweb.com

Eve, Why do you have James and Honora as married in Gorteen? The record

Igot in Sligo said Kilfree and Killaragt parish. Have you seen more

specificinformation? Roger

>EveFrom: "Roger Cryan" <cryan@avana.net> | Subject: Re: [CRYAN] James CRYAN and Honoria BIERNE Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 23:34:17 -0500 To: CRYAN-L@rootsweb.com

And, I'd also point out again that, according to my information:

Mary Jane came to America (Lowell), apparently after the 1901 census,

because my Grandfather (born 1899) remembered her.

She went back to Ireland. [Many Irish that came to America returned.]

She never married.

From: JudyBruce@aol.com | Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 00:14:14 EST Subject: [CRYAN] Cryan's Lowell, Ma.>Woonsocket, RI To: CRYAN-L@rootsweb.com

Eve and others interested.

I descend down from Michael Cryan 5 Non 1854 who was the son of James

and Honoria Cryan. He married Ellen Meehan in Lowell, Ma. and sometime

after his 6 children were born in the late 1800's he removed from Lowell and

came to Woonsocket, RI.. The family stayed there for a few years and around

1915-20 left Woonsocket and moved to Columbus, Ohio area. Family history said

he went there at the request of his son James, who was an electrician, and was

already living there. So Michael and Ellen and rest of their immediate

family left. Two daughters remained in Woosocket. They were Mary Honora Cryan

who married John F. Reilly of Woonsocket and Francis L. Cryan who married

Leo P. Duplisses.

The 6 children all born in Lowell, Ma. were:

Mary Honora 6 Dec 1884 (married the Reilly; had 5 children)

Anne T. Sep 1886 (never married; worked but not sure ofoccupation)

James May 1888 (electrician) (Cannot locate any info onhim)

Family history said he moved maybe to the Toledo/Detroit area????

Ella M. 28 Dec 1889 (never married; occupation privatesecretary)

Frances L. 5 Aug 1894 (married the Duplisses; no issue)

William H. 15 Nov 1895 (was told never married but obit sayswas a widower)

Still looking for the son James who moved away from Columbus. He

supposedly donated all the electrical wiring for St. Francis Hospital in Columbus

which has since been torn down.Hope this helps someone.judybruce@aol.com

From: "Michael Tobin" <tobinmi@hotmail.com Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 00:21:50 PST

Subject: [CRYAN] Records for the Lorton Estate To: CRYAN-L@rootsweb.com

I mentioned in a previous posting that I had the opportunity to visit

the National Library in Dublin. Here, one of the main tasks I set myself

was to look at the Lorton estate records, which cover parts of Boyle in Co.

Roscommon and parts of Keash in Co. Sligo. Unfortunately I did not have

near enough time to look at the records in the level of detail which I had

hoped. My initial plan was to note down details of all Cryans or variants of

the name, but it turned out that I would have needed 3 or 4 hours to do

this. As it was, I only had 1 hour.

I have listed the information which I noted below. Some observations :-

1. If possible, can people on the list 'claim' their relatives on the

list of Lorton tenants below - it will help identify who's who in the Lortontenants.

2. I don't think I've uncovered much additional information to what we

already knew from Griffith's. Most of the leases below date from 1859,

which would also be covered by Griffith's. Its unclear to me as to why

Lorton's records only started here for the Keash townlands. They start earlier

for other townlands. Its possible that the land only came into his

possession then, or that the Griffith's Valuation triggered a renegotiation of

leases (unlikely if the leases were set in law), or that the depopulation of

the area in the Famine triggered a reallocation of leases. Its possible

also that there are some other Lorton lease books around which covered the

earlier years - although I didn't come across them.

3. In several places below, I note that other names or words were

written on the lease book in a different style of handwriting. There were only

2 styles of handwriting used throughout. The main style was a caligraphy

style, done extremely neatly in pen, while the later style was done

roughly in pencil. One comment had a date of 1871 opposite the rough style -

this may mean that all of those comments date around then.

4. In several places, where a second name is written under the name of

the tenant, it most likely means that this person took over the lease. In

most cases, I feel that this most likely indicate that the second person was

a son or daughter of the first. I would be interested in hearing if

anyone else on the list has details to specifically support this for the

tenants listed as if possible, I would like to figure out exactly who is who

amongst all these Lorton tenants.

5. As with Griffith's, most of the Cryans listed are in the townlands

of Carrowcrory, Brougher and Derrygolagh. These 3 townlands look to all

border each other on an Ordnance Survey map, in the shape of a triangle. This

could suggest they are all originally of the one extended family, and

all settled in this triangle of land when they came to the area.

6. Apologies to those on the list whose Cryans are not from the area I

list. Hopefully I or someone else on the list will get the opportunity again

to go through the Lorton lease books, confirm what I have noted, and add

further to it for Cryans in the Boyle area.

The following are the details which I noted down :-

Boyle

*****

Tenant: Matthew Cryan

Location: Eaton's Lane

Renting: House and Plott, 4 acre 1 rood 30 perches

The Carlingford Estate (not sure why its called this - possibly its

owner??)

*****************

Tenant: Matthew Cryan

Location: Toniponra

Renting: 14a 3r 20p

Date: 10 Nov 1848

[Underneath Matthew's name was the name of John Cryan in different

hand-writing. These people are my ancestors, with John being Matthew's

son.

I previously had verbal information that John may have rented a

different plot in the same townland, but this appears to confirm that there was a

direct inheritance of the lease from his father Matthew.

A previous entry for Toniponra listed a Robert Powell as renting 123

acres in Toniponra and Lecarrugh, with a note that the tenant was ejected on

1 May 1847. As Griffith's indicated Toniponra as only 106 acres and does not

list Lecarraugh, I'm assuming Lecarraugh was just a small part of a

neighbouring townland and that all of Toniponra was rented by Powell. Question then

is whether Powell sub-let that land to other tenants, including my Matthew

Cyran, prior to 1848 or whether Matthew Cyran and the other tenants

were allocated the lease after Powell was ejected.]

The Elphin Estate

**************

Tenant: Daniel Cryan

Location: Tully

Renting: 11a 1r 2p

Date: 1 Nov 1849

Tenant: Dan Costello

Location: Tully

Renting: 23a 1r 14p

Date: 1 Nov 1847

Observation: Leased to Pat Cryan

Tenant: Daniel Cryan

Location: Carrowcrory

Renting: 7a 2r 5p

Date: 1 Nov 1859

Tenant: Pat Cryan

Location: Carrowcrory

Renting: 10a 3r 15p

Date: 10 Nov 1859

Tenant: Mary Cryan

Location: Carrowcrory

Renting: 13a 0r 11p

Date: 10 Nov 1859

Tenant: John Cryan

Location: Carrowcrory

Renting: 16a 0r 16p

Date: 10 Nov 1859

[Underneath John's name was Bridget C., in different handwriting]

Tenant: Michael Cryan

Location: Carrowcrory

Renting: 18a 0r 28p

Date: 1 Nov 1859

[In 1871, rented additional 8a r2 21p which had previously been rented

to Pat Cryan (child)]

Tenant: Michael Cryan (child)

Location: Carrowcrory

Renting: 14a 3r 7p

Date: 1 Nov 1859

Tenant: Pat Cryan (child)

Location: Carrowcrory

Renting: 8a 2r 21p

Date: 1 Nov 1859

[see earlier note re this plot later being rented by Michael Cryan]

[Note in Griffith's Michael, Michael and Pat are listed as a group.

That coupled with the info here that they were children, suggests that they

were father and sons]

Tenant: Thomas Cryan (King)

Location: Carrowcrory

Renting: 9a 1r 0p

Date: 1 Nov 1859

[followed by Michael McLoughlin rented the land from 1 Nov 1872, with

note that Thomas Cryan "paid no rent at all"]

[I wonder does the "King" name in brackets after Thomas' name suggest

that he was someway connected to Lord Lorton's family which was King-Harman.

Maybe that's why he got away with paying no rent for 13 years!]

Tenant: Pat Cryan

Location: Brougher

Renting: 7a 3r 34p

Date: 1 Nov 1859

Observation: I suspect the contents given here includes 2r 38p of

Carrowcrory.

[Underneath Pat Cryan's name, was written the name of Thomas C. indifferent handwriting ]

Tenant: Pat Cryan (Red)

Location: Brougher

Renting: 9a 3r 35p

Date: 1 Nov 1859

Tenant: Bridget Cryan

Location: Brougher

Renting: 1a 2r

Date: 1 Nov 1859

Tenant: James Cryan (Black)

Location: Brougher

Renting: 7a 5r 13p

Date: 1 Nov 1859

Tenant: James Cryan

Location: Brougher

Renting: 11a 1r 4p

Date: 1 Nov 1859

[In different hand-writing underneath name, was written the word "Andy"or "Auby". I'm pretty sure the first letter was "A" and the last letterwas "y"]

Tenant: Pat Cryan

Location: Brougher

Renting: 10a 19r 16p

Date: 1 Nov 1859

[In different hand-writing underneath name, was the word "Ward"]

Tenant: James Cryan

Location: Brougher

Renting: 6a 2r 17p

Date: 1 Nov 1859

[In different hand-writing underneath name, was the word "Red"]

Tenant: Martin Cryan

Location: Derrygolagh

Renting: 5a 0r 25p

Date: 1 Nov 1859

Tenant: James Cryan

Location: Derrygolagh

Renting: 7a 1r 0p

Date: 1 Nov 1859

Tenant: Pat Cryan

Location: Derrygolagh

Renting: 21a 3r 15p

Date: 1 Nov 1859

Tenant: Thomas Cryan

Location: Derrygolagh

Renting: 7a 2r 35p

Date: 1 Nov 1859

Tenant: James Cryan

Location: Derrygolagh

Renting: 8a 2r 11p

Date: 1 Nov 1859

[In different hand-writing underneath name, was the name "Pat C"]

Tenant: Pat Cryan

Location: Derrygolagh

Renting: 6a

Date: 1 Nov 1859

Tenant: Matthew Cryan

Location: Derrygolagh

Renting: 19a 1r 10p

Date: 1 Nov 1859

"FamSpack" < > From: "FamSpack" < > | Date:

Fri, 11 Feb 2000 09:38:08 -0000 Subject: [CRYAN] Lorton Estate To: CRYAN-

Thank you so much Michael , that looks like gold.

There are several comments

Though I have no proof as yet but it will come, I am sure, I lke to

claimDaniel Cryan as my gggrandfather John's brother. Having been through

quite afew PRs I have not found any other Daniel's of the correct age.

These plots can be tied up with 1901 census info which gives some of

thechildren

Lecarragh or Lecarrow is athe name of a townland I should think. There

isone about one mile to the SE of Ballinafad and there is also one near

thejunction of the River Boyle with the NE corner of L Gara on the E side.

The names Carlingford and Elphin Estate must be subdivisions of the

LortonEstate ie separate plots of land probably acquired at different times.

Theremay be historic reasons for the names eg Lord Carlingford was strapped

forcash so sold off this plot ,and hence the name ....It would be

interestingto know.Thanks again Eve

Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 08:25:37 -0500 From:"Joe j. crogan" <JoeCrogan@compuserve.com> |

Subject: [CRYAN] E-Mail address change To: CRYAN-L@rootsweb.com

We have left the Compuserve community for AOL. Please change your

records. I am at JoeCrogan@aol.com Thanks Joe

From: MFRowley@aol.com | Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 09:38:29 EST Subject: [CRYAN] Re: I need some assistance To: CRYAN-L@rootsweb.com

I have been trying for more than a week to uns*bscribe from this list.

I have tried the commands in the FAQ, I have tried going to the web page, I

have tried everything I can think of, but still I get the digests. Please

help me get off. They are a very painful reminder of my husband, who deserted

us a few months ago.Thank you.

Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 19:30:18 -0500 From: Carol Russell tweetybird1@sympatico.ca> | Block address Reply-to: tweetybird1@sympatico.ca

Organization: Home Computer Subject: ELLIS ISLAND WALL

To: WALSH-L@rootsweb.com

The following is the answer I received from Ellis island people

regarding a querry I ask about a couple of names. I am pleased with

their response. Carol

We apologize for the delay in responding to your email. Due to the

overwhelming amount of email we've received lately, we were unable to

respond as quickly as we would have liked. Thanks for your patience.

Elizabeth Corrigan Welch was submitted by Evelyn M. Henry of Staten

Island,NY.

John Welch was submitted by Margaret C. Welsh of Glen Oaks, NY.

The Statue of Liberty-Ellis Island Foundation (R) does not currently

maintain genealogical records. If a person immigrated through New York

Harbor between 1892-1924, those records should be accessible in the

firstphase of The American Family Immigration History Center (R) in early

2001.Future plans include expanding the database to include additional years

andports of entry. In addition, a computer printout on a listing will be

available as well as a reproduction of the actual page in the manifest

and apicture of the ship of passage. We plan to make this information

accessibleover the Internet.

In the meantime, you can start your search through information

availableatthe National Archives (www.nara.gov).

Please visit our News Page located at www.wallofhonor.com for more

information regarding the center.

You can also refer to the "Related Links and Publications" page on our

website, www.wallofhonor.com. There you'll find "Other Sites of

Interest"which includes links to genealogy sites among others.

Many thanks for your interest.

Donor ServicesThe Statue of Liberty-Ellis Island Foundation (R)

We apologize for the delay in responding to your email. Due to the

overwhelming amount of email we've received lately, we were unable to

respond as quickly as we would have liked. Thanks for your patience.

Elizabeth Corrigan Welch was submitted by Evelyn M. Henry of Staten

Island,

NY.