Additional contact information (i.e., phone, fax) would be

helpful. A strong response is anticipated and the television show

developers will only be able to respond to those whose stories

most closely fit its criteria. However, all submissions are

appreciated and will be given careful consideration.


From:        Fatarm@aol.comAdd to Address Book   Date:        Thu, 25 Mar 1999 10:20:50 EST Subject:

        [CRYAN-L] Roscommon List mentions Buffalo Barracks site


and I thought I'd take a look.  I'm not sure what to make of the only

potential entry of interest to our group, Nathaniel CRANE, born in

Schnectady,NY who deserted in 1841 -- about a week after he was signed up!

Here's the site, should anyone else wish to take a looksy ....

<A HREF="">Infantry  Work



From:        Fatarm@aol.comAdd to Address Book   Date:        Thu, 25 Mar 1999 16:09:46 EST

 Subject:        [CRYAN-L] "Views of the Famine" reposted from Ballykilcline mailing list


A subscriber to the Ballykilcline mailing list posted this website, and

it'sgot some wonderful primary sources cited.  Even if it wasn't your Cryan

ancestor who emigrated during the famine, you may have an another Irish

ancestor who did.  Check it out at:

 <A HREF="">Views of the


"Our second Sketch represents what is called a Scalpeen. A Scalpeen is a hole. . . It is often erected within the walls when anyare left standing, of the unroofed houses, and all that is above the surface is built out of the old materials. It possesses, too,some pieces of furniture, and the Scalpeen is altogether superior to the Scalp."Illustrated London News, December 15, 1849.


" This Sketch shows the Scalpeen of Tim Downs, at Dunmore, in the parish of Kellard, where himself and his ancestors resided on the spot for over a century, with renewal of their lease in 1845. He neither owed rent arrears or taxes up to the present moment, and yet he was pitched out on the roadside, and saw ten other houses, with his own, levelled at one fell swoop on the spot, the ruins of some of which are seen in this Sketch. None of them were mud cabins, but all capital stone-built houses."

Illustrated London News, December 22, 1849.


"There is something called a scalp, or hole dug in the earth, some two or three feet

deep. In such a place was the abode of Brian Connor. He has three in family, and

had lived in this hole several months before it was discovered. It was roofed over

with sticks and pieces of turf, laid in the shape of an inverted saucer. It resembles,

though not quite so large, one of the ant-hills of the African forests."

Illustrated London News, December 22, 1849.


" Than this scalp, nothing could be more wretched. It was placed in a hole, surrounded by pools, and three sides of the scalp  (shown in the Sketch) were dripping with water, which ran in small streams over the floor and out by the entrance. Yet, wretched as this hole is, the poor inhabitants said they would be thankful and content if the landlord would leave them there, and the Almighty would spare their lives. "

Illustrated London News, December 29, 1849.


  From:        Fatarm@aol.comAdd to Address Book   Date:        Tue, 30 Mar 1999 11:48:28 EST

 Subject:        [CRYAN-L] Two Croghan census entries    To:

William Croghan, 1860 Maryland Federal Census Index, of Worcester Co.,

MD, NewTown, Castins District.ANDJohn Croghan, 1850 Maryland Federal Census Index, of Baltimore Co., MD,9thWard of Baltimore.If you would like more information about these two, please contact me

directly.  -Leslie


HUMOR. Thanks to <> who posted this poem (with

the introduction "Why it is easier to be a Blacksheep") to

<>, from which we rustled it.



                    (Author unknown)


         It's nice to come from gentle folks

         Who wouldn't stoop to brawl,

         Who never took a lusty poke

         At anyone at all.

         Who never raised a raucous shout

         At any country inn,

         Or calmed an ugly fellow lout

         With a belaying pin.

         Who never shot at a revenuer

         Hunting for a still,

         Who never rustled cattle

         and agreed with Uncle's will.

         Who lived life as they ought

         without uncouth distraction,

         And shunned like leprosy a thought

         of taking legal action.

         It's nice to come from gentle folks

         Who've never known disgrace

         But oh, though scandal is no joke

         It's far easier to trace!


From:          Fatarm@aol.comAdd to Address Book    Date:  Fri, 2 Apr 1999 11:09:12 EST Reply-To:  Subject:          [CRYAN-L] Creagan (and variations) from Maryland Census Index      To:

Please contact me directly for further info on any of the following:

1870 - Patrick Creagan of Baltimore Co., MD; 3rd District

1870 - Thomas Creagan of Baltimore Co., MD; 3rd District

1850 - Michael Cregan of Allegheny Co., MD; 6th E.D.

1870 - Augusta Creaghan of Baltimore Co., MD; 3rd District

1870 - Michael Creaghan of Baltimore Co., MD; 9th District

There were no Creghans.



    From:          Fatarm@aol.comAdd to Address Book    Date:  Fri, 2 Apr 1999 11:13:20 EST Reply-To:  Subject:  [CRYAN-L] Crean (and variations - incl McCrean!) from Maryland Census Index


Please contact me directly for further info on the following:

1850 - Samuel McCrean of Baltimore Co., MD; 3rd Ward, Baltimore City

1860 - John Creen of Frederick Co., MD; Petersville District

1860 - John Creen of Frederick Co., MD; Petersville District (possibly

a John Jr.)

1860 - William Creen of Frederick Co., MD; Petersville District

There were no Creanes or Creenes.

And how 'bout that MC?  That's a first time for me!  Anyone else seen a

McCrean previously?  With that 'samuel' it sounds very Scottish to me,

but who knows?  I'd be interested in anyone's thoughts on the matter,



hi Liam Walsh 3-4-99

How are you! I met Aidan, Kieran and Jackie (for the first time in 8 years) Rosemary, Paul and Niamh at Aidan's birthday drinks last week. Susan rang me and then I rang Lauri (mobiles are very handy) and we went to the pub to see them. They were all in great form.


I dont know if I told you that my latest project is to interview the older members of the family on video. I have done interviews ranging in length from 1 hour to 2 1/2 hours with my mother, Teda, Des, Colette, Olivia Downey and her husband (Olivia's father was our grandfathers brother) I would like to interview your mother, Frank and Doreen as well. Now, they don't always take to the idea immediately but soon warm when they get going (Could you warm them up to the idea???). I really regret I didnt do same when I was over last year especially after talking to your father a lot about Korea etc.

I believe Sally is coming over to Ireland. Is Frank coming over? If not, I was thinking of coming over to the States again soon and bringing the video camera with me this time.

Eventually I plan to make transcripts of all the interviews, edit them, send copies to the interviewees for approval, and then put them together in the form of a small book which will be distributed to everyone.

What do you think?


Also I was wondering what you want me to do with the old photos I borrowed last year? Does the family want me to keep them for safe-keeping (I could have copies made for you all) or would you prefer me to bring them with me if I come over? I am not sure who exactly is interested in them as Sally kept saying to me to keep them which I would not do against the wishes of the family as a whole. Could you discuss this with the family and let me know?

Lauri came over last night and we edited other material I had collected and we are going to make a new addendum (40 pages). When the pack is photocopied I will give you all copies.

Other than that I am still rewriting my thesis, still really broke but still going out a lot (Well, you have to have a life!)Write soon regards Kevin


From:          Fatarm@aol.comAdd to Address Book

    Date:          Sat, 3 Apr 1999 10:31:56 EST


  Subject:          [CRYAN-L] LDS site is (so I hear) up and running



Here's the address of the LDS site should one of you like to check it

out while your relatives are snoozing over tummies full of ham this weekend

Happy Easter all!Leslie


Reply-To:          "Family History" < >

    From:          "Family History" < >Add to Address Book

      To:          "Caoimhghin O Croidheain" <>

  Subject:          Re: [CRYAN-L] Request    Date:          Tue, 6 Apr 1999 09:34:01 +0100

Hi again,About Charles Cryan - I shall be going to the GRO at Myddleton

Place in the not too distant future as I said. Then I can ask about the

timing for the 1998 indexes and what else we can do.Until the indexes

areproduced it is like looking for a needle in a haystack. If the date and

place were known, it would be straight forward to give the details and

writeto the local registry. The date and place are uncertain so I am not

sure ofa procedure.On the whole they need more than a name. Do not worry, it

won'tbe too long , once the entry with its index number is found, it takes

about4 days to receive the certificate.

That visit to the GRO a few weeks ago was momentous for me, (apart fom

falling and cracking my head),finding a sister for my ggrandfather plus

thedeaths of all 4 of the family within a few years of each other at a

fairlyyoung age. John and Daniel died at about 41 yrs old,no wonder that they

werenot known by their grandchildren. They must have been twins or at least

veryclose in age. Perhaps further parish registers will reveal something. I

amjust off to the LDS to look at the Gurteen register.

I will let you know of any further news from my enquireis. Eve


From:          Fatarm@aol.comAdd to Address Book     Date:          Wed, 7 Apr 1999 12:00:48 EDT

 Reply-To:   Subject:          [CRYAN-L] Online maps, websites and other references gleaned from this past weekend's          mailing lists      To:

I thought this weekend would be quiet for the online genealogical

community, but the emails swamped my mailbox.  I found a lot of references for

websites I'd never visited, so I thought I'd re-package the ones that might be

interesting to us O'Crean, Creaghan and MacCroghan  -types and share

them.  I hope something proves interesting!  -Leslie


This info comes from the Ballykilcline society (reposted here):

"There is a map of Boyle and Ballyk on this page by the MacDermot Clan.

Somemay wish to take a look:  "


>From GenIre mailing list:

"The National Library in Dublin ( has

parishrecords on microfilm" [note: records not online, but here's info about

the library & collection]


>From GenIre mailing list, responding to a question about where to get

birth/death records, with a recommendation to check out the TIARA



        Irish Register of Births, Marriages, and Deaths since 1864

        Indexes available on microfilm at LDS Family History Centers

        Online Irish Vital Records Ordering Service

        General Register Office (Republic of Ireland)

        General Register Office (Northern Ireland)  

And continuing on the subject of looking for records in Dublin:


        Dublin Family Heritage Centre computerizing parish records

        Provides search service for a fee

        See for customer comments

        County Dublin sources for genealogy

        County Dublin queries page

        Dun Laoghaire Genealogical Society

        Dun Laoghaire-Rathdown Library Family History Resources

        Dublin City Public Library

        Dublin Public Library Family History Resources

        Dublin City Archive

        Glasnevin Cemetery, in Dublin

        Dublin Directory of 1850

        Map of Greater Dublin area  "


>From GenIre in response to looking for telephone directory info:

"In terms of doing Web searches for surnames in Ireland, I've found and to yield intriguing

results ... though you can't expect it to be a substitute for the




>From Gen-Ire about name origins:

"I submitted a list of some of the ancient Irish names and their

English translations to;

 Patrick Traynor,   in California's gold-rush country."



 Reply-To:          "Family History" < >    From:          "Family History" < >Add to Address Book      To:          "Caoimhghin O Croidheain" <>  Subject:          Re: [CRYAN-L] Request    Date:          Thu, 8 Apr 1999 00:33:25 +0100

Thank you for your concern, re head, your friend was not of my line of

Cryans, we have tuff nuts!!!. But I must say I felt stunned and bruised

andstupid but had to get home on the underground and then the train.

Re charles .... what you have given particularly the birth date should

help.It is just that the sorted list of records has not yet been published

for1998..... March I think was a bit early in the year.Until again Eve


    From:          Fatarm@aol.comAdd to Address Book    Date:          Thu, 8 Apr 1999 09:36:10 EDT

 Reply-To:  Subject:          [CRYAN-L] Fwd: Re: records on famine immigrants (Boston, MA)      To:

I thought this posting listed some new websites that might be of

interest to you Boston and Lowell-area researchers in Massachusetts.  Let me know

if any of them are particularly good .... Leslie

My Irish Dwyer/Dyer ancestors also emigrated to Cambridge, MA. The

CambridgeCity Library has newspapers and City Directories  from this time

period.The Cambridge Historical Society has some pictures of many of the old

houses.I've found a picture of the tenement that my Irish ancestors lived in

during the1870's. Here is their URL.

The clerks office at Cambridge City Hall let me look through their old

birth/marriage/death records. Which are also available at the Mass

StateArchives and the Mass Dept of Vital Records. (See the TIARA site )

And the archdiocese of boston also has parish registers. These

registers havebaptismal, marriage, and death records. They have info not found in the

civilrecords such as godparents, best man/maid of honor at marriages, etc.

which canlead to other relatives.  (See the TIARA site )

And you can also look for them at in the 1880 U.S Census at the

NationalArchives and the Boston City Library. (See the TIARA site )

Heres my genealogy site.

Good Luck,Tom


    From:          Fatarm@aol.comAdd to Address Book    Date:          Thu, 8 Apr 1999 10:40:50 EDT

 Reply-To:  Subject:          [CRYAN-L] Cryans from AIS Census Index (USA) (all but NY &SD)      To:

Cryans from AIS Census Index (USA) (all but NY &SD):

1870: Solano Co., CA: Thomas Cryan

1830: NewCastle Co., DE: John O'Cryan

1860: Macoupin Co., IL: Leura & Micaja Cryan

1870: Muscatine Co., IA: Bridget & Michael Cryan

1870: Cumberland Co., ME: Mary & Michael Cryan

1850: Boston; Suffolk Co., MA:  John Cryan

1860: Suffolk Co., MA: Patrick Cryan

1860: Bristol Co., MA: Jason Cryan

1860: Attleborough, Bristol Co., MA: Michael Cryan

1860: Essex Co., MA: Thomas Cryan

1870: Hennepin Co., MN:  Sarah Cryan

1860: Bucks Co., PA: Dean Cryan (female)

1910: Churchill Co., NV: Michael Cryan

1860: Union Co., NJ: James Cryan

1870: Essex Co., NJ: John & Mary Cryan

1870: Lucas Co., OH: Cecelia & James Cryan

1870: Luzerne Co., PA: Mary Cryan

1880: Brazoria Co., TX: Anderson Cryan

1810: Wythe Co., VA: Henry Cryan

1840: Jackson Co., VA: Henry McCryan


Did you see those O'Cryan and McCryan entries?  Interesting ...

If anyone would like more info on the above, write and I'll let you

know what little more I have.  I'll do S.Dakota later with NY (they were numerous

entries and I haven't completed copying them yet).  What's everyone upto these days?  Leslie


From:          RuthK3834@aol.comAdd to Address Book    Date:          Thu, 8 Apr 1999 10:51:29 EDT

 Reply-To:  Subject:          [CRYAN-L] Further Success      To:

I have received a letter from a clerk at a church in Newcastle West to

whom I never wrote!!!  I did write to lots of folks with the Cregan last name

in the area looking for family that is perhaps still moving around.  Evidently

one of these kind people took my inquiry to the church and I got the

aforementioned letter telling me of three living cousins in the area!

I am so excited.  I have written to them and am hopeful about getting a

response.  Happily,Ruth


From: Add to Address Book    Date:          Fri, 9 Apr 1999 16:54:16 EDT

 Reply-To:  Subject:          [CRYAN-L] Patrick - your posting re: Vct. Lorton


I'm sorry to be just getting around to paying attention to your earlier

posting, Patrick, but some time ago you posted the 1885 tenants of

Viscount Lorton.  Can I ask what your source was?  Also, if you still have

access to it -- were there others of the spelling variations?  You noted some

Cryan -s and a Cryne, but I was wondering if there were any Creans, etc.

Thanks, Leslie


From: Add to Address Book    Date:          Sat, 10 Apr 1999 14:12:18 EDT

 Reply-To:  Subject:          [CRYAN-L] RAGC learned to post!


Roger, Eve, Jill, Leslie  Finally figuring out how to read

archives and post - does this mean I don't have to organize Cryan List notes for

my own files?  Wow.  That's what was holding me back.  You should know

that most of my information is the same as Jill DeVito's as her Mom is my first

cousin.O.K.   Walter Cryan the newscaster looks just like my Fathers' family

(and my generation now that we are 50 ish) typical is the widows peak and early

turning of hair to white.The tradition of age changing remains as Arthur Cryan discovered his

Mother Anna O'Reilly was born in 1854 not 55 and placed me as the youngest in

my family when in fact my brother Richard Patrick Cryan is. {I'd be happy

to post his work if Jill hasn't already done so]

I can't understand why I didn't know there were more Cryans in Lowell

than I knew.  I've seen pictures and heard stories of the 1938 flood (like my

Father James Ultican Cryan walking from Lowell to Chelmsford to see his fiance

- Mom, Mary HonanCassidy) but never heard of Martin Cryan who died in it.

Answer to my own question?  A friend gave me an excerpt from a book on

psychology and the Irish - and how immune we are to routine counseling-

 It suggests that after 500 years of being stolen from, starved, put into

servitude and generally demeaned by people who looked just like us

we've finely tuned that well know Irsh wit, sarcasm, blarney to a degree that

only the most creative, mystically inspired, artist of psychology could

penetrate.  That's certainly the case with my family - and, again, there are

stories of men leaving Ireland packed in pork barrels, and/or dressed as women to

avoid prosecution.  (Maybe the lost Michael?)  They couldn't have been too

eager to leave tracks.

Well, AOL bumped me again - says I was idle when I was creating all

that prose!  Now the search engine says there are no Cryan postings so I've

lost the material I was responding to.  I'll just do what Leslie asked and

post an e-mail I sent her recently.

Please give me some feedback on whether I you'd like me to post a

monologue based on the life of Anna O'Reilly Cryan, in Lowell, 1923 that my

Sister Kate Cryan wrote for a master's storytelling class and other info, if Jill

DeVito hasn't already posted it.  Thanks, Rosalie Anne Gertrude Cryan  (names

that reccur)


Subj:   Re: [CRYAN-L] Cryans from AIS Census Index (USA) (all but NY &SD)

Date:   4/8/99 11:39:48 AM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom:   RoCryan

To:     Fatarm

Hi Leslie,  I'm desperatly trying to catch up on paper work - and my

taxes are already done!  I barely have time to read Cryan-L stuff but I'm

still fascinated and will spend more time - perhaps during the lazy, hazy

days of summer- responding to posts.  A note on McRyan and variations of:  for

many years I explained my name to folks thusly; "When the McRyan's (or

McCryans?) arrived on Liberty's shore,  the immigration processors dropped the M

and we became Cryan".  I learned this story when I was very young, possibly

from a Great Aunt or Uncle? Rosalie




  From:        "Roger Cryan and Regina Pana-Cryan" <> Add to Address Book

 Subject:        Re: [CRYAN-L] RAGC learned to post!   Date:

        Sat, 10 Apr 1999 23:13:59 -0400    To:

To Rosalie and everyone else,

        Martin Cryan (of Lowell, MA) died during the 1938 flood, but not in

theflood.  He died of pneumonia or something in his house in

Pawtucketville,which was (I was told) just a few yards above the high water mark.  My

grandfather had to talk his way past the police to go to his father's

sickbed.        Rosalie, do you know who Walter Cryan's grandfather was?  (I don't.)

Isanyone on this list related to Walter Cryan?        Happy hunting everyone.                        Roger Cryan



Reply-To:          "Family History" < >    From:          "Family History" < > Add to Address Book  Subject:          Re: [CRYAN-L] Re CRYAN and RORKE/ROURKE/O'ROARK    Date:          Mon, 12 Apr 1999 00:18:34 +0100


I received your two mails. No there have not been others but I had

hopedthat you had receved the one about the RORKEs.

I usually write to the list rather than reply personally because it is

surprising how often a posting like this is picked up by yet another

connection.Do ask questions to the list , tell family tale/stories, describe

thingsthat ggrandpa/ma made or did, describe photos or recipes. It is all

part ofmaking a more rounded picture of those in your family tree. Similar

skillsor talents or even the songs that were sung may come from the same

line.I already had a couple of my grandmother Cryan's beautiful lace

tableclothsand have just uncovered or found one that has never been used and was

probably made by her as a wedding gift for my mother and father -

drippingwith fine lace around a tiny square of very fine white linen. Fine

whitelinen puts me in mind of the area around Ballymote where many people

wereinvolved in linen manufacturing. Interesting too is the fact that

another ofmy ggrandparents(not Cryan) was a flax merchant elsewhere in Ireland.

There is a great deal to our ancestors if we look far enough.

Happy huntingEve.


From: Add to Address Book    Date:          Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:51:48 EDT

  Subject:          Fwd: Re: [CRYAN-L] Cryans from AIS Census Index (USA) (all but NY

          &SD) Reply-To:      To:

Hi, Leslie,

I'm still searching for my Michael Crehan.  I did find he was

naturalized inthe USA in 1886 and his sponsor was John Crehan.  I have no idea who

John isbut I'm determined to solve that mystery also.  I now know that

Michael'swife was Margaret Dillon born in 1846 in Boston to Michael and Bridgett

Dillon who were both born in Ireland.  I have sent to Boston for

Margaret'sbirth certificate and hope it will give me more information.

I got a book from my local library called The Complete Book for Tracing

YourIrish Ancestors written by a Michael C. O'Laughlin.  So far it has only

toldme that there were 17 Crehans born in Galway in 1890 and 15 used that

exactspelling.  This only tells me that possibly my Crehans were from that

partof Ireland which is something I didn't know before.

The book also explained something that I'm sure all you Irish already

knowbut I didn't.  Surnames that contain an "O" were ancient Gaelic and the

"O"is an acccent mark that stood for 'grandson of' or 'male descendent

of'.Michael O'LochLainn would mean you were Michael - grandson of or male

descendent of LochLainn.  And the Mac in surnames stood for 'son of'.

That's a new one on me.  Interesting, wouldn't you say?

I'm still hard at work on these Crehans as is my cousin Carole from

Ohio.I've seen so many variations of Crehan but can't make a connection yet.

Take care and enjoy your new home.

Crystal Hamel


    From: Add to Address Book    Date:          Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:55:58 EDT

 Reply-To:  Subject:          [CRYAN-L] Co. Sligo websites


Again from the GenIre list, three Sligo websites which some of you

researching in that county might enjoy ...

        County Sligo Library Family History Resources

        County Sligo Surname List

        Map of County Sligo

(from ahern and Tiara website)

From: Add to Address Book    Date:          Mon, 12 Apr 1999 14:52:04 EDT

 Reply-To:  Subject:          [CRYAN-L] McRyan      To:

A note on McRyan and variations of:  for many years I explained my name

to folks thusly; "When the McRyan's (or McCryans?) arrived on Liberty's

shore,  the immigration processors dropped the M and we became Cryan".  I

learned this story when I was very young, possibly from a Great Aunt or Uncle?


From: Add to Address Book    Date:          Tue, 13 Apr 1999 09:31:48 EDT Reply-To:

  Subject:          [CRYAN-L] Cryan Entries for SD (AIS Census Index)


Please contact me directly if you would like any additional info on the

following (I'm sure you've already got this, Lyle, but let me know all

the same:):

All: 1870 Fed Pop. Schdl.:  All of Union Co., SD: Jefferson.



Martin J.





From: Add to Address Book    Date:          Tue, 13 Apr 1999 09:36:31 EDT

 Reply-To:  Subject:          [CRYAN-L] Craen Entries for AIS Census Index/Fed Pop. Schdl      To:

1850: Lurany Craen of DeKalb Co., AL: Civil Division 25.

1860: Mary Craen of New Castle Co., DE: Wilimgton City, 1st ward.

1860: Mary Craen of Washington Co., District of Columbia: 4th ward

1870: Maurice Craen of Cook Co., IL: 5 w Chicago

1860: Thomas Craen of Saline Co., IL:  Eldorado P.O.

1870: Frank Craen of Madison Co., KY: Richmond.

1880: Catherine Craen of Washoe Co., NV: Reno

1870: William Craen of Kings Co., NY: 1 w. Brooklyn.

1860: Hugh Craen of Wyoming Co., NY: Perry

1860: Michael G. Craen of Cattaraugus Co., NY: Little Valley.

1870: Prudy Craen of Catawba Co., NC: Clines Twp.

1840: John Craen of Venango Co., PA: Sugar Creek Twp.

1891: Peter Craen of WArren Co., TN: Dist. 9 - male voters.



    From: Add to Address Book    Date:          Tue, 13 Apr 1999 09:43:26 EDT Reply-To:

  Subject:          [CRYAN-L] Crean Entries for AIS Census Index - part 1


1860: Martha Crean of Henry Co., AL: Sanders Beat.

1870: Andrew Crean of Arapahoe Co., CO: Denver.

1880: Sophia Crean of El Paso Co., CO: Colorado Springs.

1860: John Crean of Washington Co., District of Columbia: 7th ward.

1820: Patrick Crean of Camden Co., GA: no twp. listed.


And two non-census listings:

1672: Henery Crean of New Haven, CT: Guilford: CT 1635-1807 Misc.


1860: R.M. Crean of Bulloch Co., GA: Slave Schedule.


Please note that these last two are not from the Census Index, but

lumped in with them.  I believe "R.M. Crean" was a slave -- unless they listed

owners, etc., I believe those listed on the slave schedules were solely slaves.

 Does anyone else know anything about the slave schedules?  I've seen

postings by African Americans searching through their Irish genealogy and surnames

on other lists.



    From: Add to Address Book    Date:          Tue, 13 Apr 1999 14:16:49 EDT

 Reply-To:  Subject:          [CRYAN-L] Good story though...


Hi all, I think Jill D. is right that the story about immigration data

dropping the Mc from Ryan or Cryan is a fabrication - at least for our

family -- that's why I only felt emboldened to tell it again after joining

rootsweb -- might have happened to others, though.  (Maybe the seemingly

unattached Walter Cryan came from Mc...)

I'm sorry, and relieved, to hear that Martin Cryan of Lowell died of

pneumonia during the 1938 flood -  I had assumed he just couldn't walk

on water the way my Dad (James Ultican Cryan, Sr.,1908-1990), could.

I think I will post Kathleen Marie Cryan's (oldest daughter of the

oldest son of John Philip Cryan and Anna Gertrude O'Reilly) work.  It is an

interpretation, from letters and oral history, of a time in the lives

on one Cryan family of Lowell, MA.   59 Temple Street, Lowell, Massachusetts

        It is an early evening in midsummer of 1927.  Anna O'Reilly Cryan,

age 43, is in her backyard, standing under the clothesline.  As she

takes down and folds the dry laundry, she speaks to us about her family and

her life.

        "My Gerald is a great baby!  He will be three in September.  When I

bring him to church with me, he behaves fine - just looks around and

smiles, but he does not talk at all.  He enjoys getting out. At home, he talks

and sings songs.  Gerald and Paul, my four year old, chum together and

Gerald likes to stand on Arthur's shoulders while Arthur walks all over the

room with him.  Gerald had a cold last week.  I was afraid I would have to

get the doctor but with Castor Oil, Pertussin and Vaporub I pulled him through

all right.

        Paul is a regular roughneck most of the time.  Last Sunday, he went

to see a pony and every time he sees a picture of a pony or horse, he

wants Papa to buy it for him.  When he gets excited, we cannot understand

him.  I say, "Paul, what are you talking about?'  This afternoon, he was all

alone in the kitchen.  He took five cups, put a little cod liver oil in each

cup, and filled them up with water.  Even after good washing, it seemed

everything smelled and tasted of cod-liver oil.

        Thomas is 6 ˝.  He is a good kid, and appreciates any little thing

you do for him.  He laughs when we say he is the smartest one yet.  He

is already practicing the headings for his school papers: Thomas Cryan,

St. Peter's School, Grade 2.  I just bought him high shoes with two buckles

for $2.69.

        Eileen is 7 ˝, and just made her first Communion.  She is able to

hold her own with Catherine, who is two years older.  She is troubled

today, because someone has smashed one of her dolls and pushed the eyes out of


        Catherine is a regular old maid and is always bossing Eileen.  She is

as sure of herself as ever.  I want to get a typewriter for her, so I'm

looking for one at the second hand store.  I found her some nice

rubbers for 85 cents.

        Jack is happy with a second hand bicycle we bought for $8.00.  He

always keeps tinkering with it.  He's 13 ˝ and would like to get a job

with Western Union.  On Saturday, he had to have a back tooth filled and Tom

had to have one pulled because it was coming in crooked.  They went down to

the dentist together.  That cost $2.50.  Papa had to go to the Common at 2

a.m. on the Fourth of July, to find Jack.  He waited to see the Fakirs take

down there stands and would be there yet if no one went after him.

        Arthur is 15 ˝.  He is doing rough work at the Courier-Citizen

Printing Plant for the summer.  He has to carry cardboard to the

machines and make himself useful.  His first full pay was $10.20.  He says he can

never get a girl if he does not get a new suit.  He has fallen into James'

blue suit.  I had the pants reseated.  It is a shame that such a

good-looking boy would have to wear old clothes.  He says it is funny, when the other

fellows speak to a girl that is the end of it but when he speaks to one they

always come back again.  If James and Frank and Pa are working, we will be

able to put Arthur through college.  Our Arthur will have to be a gentleman.

He has not the physique for strenuous work the rest of the boys do.   He is

the slowest thing on earth.  He will never catch up.

        Frank is almost 17.  He is getting 35cents an hour for painting a

house in Tyngsborough.  He has a different girl every week and believe

me, he is some sheik!  Sometimes he was so distracted from his schoolwork he

didn't even hear the teacher's assignment. He was booked for two weeks at the

'Y' to help out while Eddie Hood was on vacation.  He was only getting $11.00

a week.  Frank is talking about taking a course at evening Textile.  I

suppose he will if he finds there are some good looking girls going.  There is

no charge to residents of Lowell but the textbook will cost $1.25.

        My big boy James is 18 ˝.  He has been in New York for almost a year.

 I wish there were some good job around here so that we could keep him

at home.  He is working at Schrafts and sending us $25.00 each week.

There must be wonderful profits in sodas if they can pay a clerk such wages!

        In June, I attended the graduation exercises at the high school.  It

gave me a touch of the blues to think of the bright prospects my boy

has missed.  I had a pipe dream that my James would be a Carney Medal

Scholar, but it was only a dream.  He is still interested in studying law and

music; at present he is taking a night course in public speaking.  I think he

could take up any number of courses that would be of more benefit than public

speaking; advertising, salesmanship, accounting - something that will

improve him along business lines.  Most of the public speaking courses he would

just be listening to beginners like himself and hearing them criticized by

the teacher but in the other courses, he'd be absorbing knowledge.

        He was living with my sister Katie and her husband, Gene, at first.  

Katie told me that sometimes he was too lazy to get up on time for Mass

on Sunday.  Now that he is on his own, living at the 'Y', it worries me.

If he does not attend to his church duties I have failed in one of my most

important trusts.  I feel dreadfully blue about it.  If he works late

on Saturday night, I think there is a midnight mass that he could attend

and sleep Sunday morning.  I think I have read somewhere that there is a

midnight mass in New York every Saturday night.  It may just be like a number of

stories you hear about New York.

        Papa is still hoping to strike something in the way of a job so James

can come home soon.  He has a monthly pension as a Spanish American War

Veteran.  It was such luck that it increased from $15 to $20 a month

last year.  He has started to sell advertising specialties.  You only get

paid on commission.  It is a good house - Geiger Brothers of Newark, New

Jersey.  They have calendars, blotters, pencils and novelties.  He has to sell

the advertising idea to the storekeeper or firm.  I don't think much of it.

 Papa thought that James might be able to work at the Telephone Company here,

but Mr. McIntyre said he just laid off about 20 men and cannot put any new

hands to work until they are taken care of.  The Cartridge Shop has moved to

New Haven leaving about 600 people out of work and the Hamilton is being

sold.  Chances here are very poor.

Papa says that all our investments are in the family now, his available

capital is all tied up in boys and girls.  He is encouraging James to

save some money though.  Fifty cents put away every week will amount to $26

in a year. At 5% that will earn $1.30 - over a third of a day's work!

Money in the bank would look mighty good to me right now.  I have tried

to keep without any bills but sometimes it makes me dizzy.  The money just

melts away.  Somehow I have to save up enough to pay for my barrel of flour,

$9.25.  Six or seven weeks is the longest I can make a barrel of flour last.

I just get it paid for when it is time to buy another one.

         I had to take $2 out of my week's money to put towards the mortgage

interest.  It took the whole pension check and Pa still had to borrow

$75.  I was pretty near strapped.  I had let my milkman go when he came in

Monday.  I told him to wait until next week.  I wonder what I'm going to do next

week.  It would be wonderful to have enough money for everything we need.  No

matter how small the opening, we just slide through somehow.  It just keeps us

drained.  We used to just about have enough to get along.  Now, we can

just about beg or borrow enough.  We can not do that very long.  Our credit

will not last.  It worries me seeing no prospect of paying back.  We are

slipping instead of climbing.  After a while we may get on a level place, get a

good grip; we may eventually reach the top.  Cheer up!  Better times are


        Mabel made me a new silk dress; maroon color, plain waist and the

lower part a figured silk.  It has a jabot and tie.  Catherine says it

is a flapper dress.  It is a lot fussier than I am in the habit of wearing.

        Aunt Bridget has had her hair bobbed!  I have not seen her but I

heard she looks very good.  Even the old ladies are taking it up.

        Daddy Tom is fine.  He buys 5 cents worth of peppermints every Sunday

and has lots of fun giving them away to the kids all week.

        Last month, I had to buy four new chairs for the dinning room.  My

strenuous boys wore out the others.  I bought them in a second hand

store.   They are heavy oak chairs.  I paid seven dollars for the four.  The man

said they would last a lifetime.  When I said I had seven boys, he laughed

and said he couldn't guarantee anything with seven boys.

        I am afraid we will not be able to take our vacation at the beach. 

Bridget offered me the house but I do not feel that we can afford the

expense of the trip.  We would have to pay at least $10 each way for

transportation.  Oh well, you know nothing is ever as black as it seems.  It might be

worse.  I think things that seem bad are sometimes for the best"

        The above was derived from conversations with my Dad and other

relatives with details selected from 72 pages of my grandmother's

letter's to my Dad, written during the time he worked in New York.  Anna Cryan died

in April, 1936, at the age of 52.  James, my Dad, said that she died of

overwork but that she had always been a very cheerful and happy woman.  My

grandfather, ten years her senior, lived only two years following the

death of his wife.  Neither one would experience the family's grief when

Thomas' plane was shot down over Germany in 1945.  His eight siblings' would

have 33 children.  The following two generations number well over 50.  Of the

nine children in the story, only Gerald, Paul, Catherine and Arthur are

still living.  The family gathers for a large reunion every summer.

© Kathleen M. Cryan

By the way, I have permission from my big sister to  post her work on

the webRAGC

As an example of how easy it is to lose a first cousin let me relate a

story.  Around the time of the 6'th or 7'th Cryan Cousins Convention - in the

early 80's we (grandchildren of Anna O'Reilly Cryan's) were urged to attend

in order to learn who Leonard Malherb - whom none of us had ever heard -

was.  Apparently my Grandmother had taken in her sister Catherine's two

children, a girl, Catherine, age 8 and a boy, Leonard age 13.  Leonard apparently

felt quite capable of taking care of himself and took off.  His sister found

him when they were both adults and introduced him to his Cryan Cousins.  He

showed up looking just like all the Uncles (widow's peak, white hair, -

so maybe that's more an O'Reilly look than a Cryan look) having become a

Professor at a college in California and a world traveler.

Enjoy, Rosalie Anne Gertrude Cryan



  From:  | Add to Address Book | Block address   Date:        Thu, 29 Apr 1999 22:12:19 EDT Subject:        [CRYAN-L] A Crean connection on my O'Crean et al. database    To:

Can I share the tiniest victory yet achieved by anyone on this list?

It involves a little griping up front, and I'm not certain it's an event

worth reporting, but today is the first time I've seen my database REALLY

work.I've been working to smooth out the bumps on the database I'm

assembling, saving all the good info that comes through my phone jack, trying to

get all the info in the same format, etc.  I have no idea on earth why I'm

doing this, but I feel compelled to help establish some sense of "Family" for

we poor scattered O'Crean, MacCroghan and Creaghan descendants.  And I

tend to take a sledge hammer approach to any research ...

But today I saw true progress.   In checking an email for some complete

stranger's ancestors' godfather's name (see what I mean by "Waayyyy

back there" and tiny victory) I found him in the Mormon list!  Weeee doggie!

 It works!So now that I've shared that little bit of self-indulgent nonsense,

here are the facts:

Timothy Crean, husband of Mary Roberts and father of John (b. 1864) and

Catherine (b. 1866), of Clonmoyle District, Co. Cork was the godfather

of one of the Radley children in 1854 in the same district.

If the godchild's researcher contacts me with any more on this

Crean-Radley connection, I'll post.  Just in case one of these Creans connects into

our own Crean researchers ... Leslie



   From:        "Roger Cryan and Regina Pana-Cryan" <>  | Add to Address Book | Block

        address   Date:        Wed, 5 May 1999 22:19:38 -0400 Subject:        [CRYAN-L] What's the connection in Ballinultagh? An exercise in speculation.     To:

[I heard from a descendent of my great-grandfather's brother, who read

allabout it on this list.]

I'm trying to determine the connection of my line to a particular farm

inBallinultagh, Boyle Parish, Co. Roscommon.

The oral tradition was that our family had been on the same farm for

1200years before my great-grandfather came to America.  But the story I

heardin Ireland, from Cryans related by marriage, was that my gggrandfather

cameto Ballinultagh with the Rorkes.

Something from Kevin, I think, gave this:

        Crine Burials of Boyle, Catholic Registry:

        John Cryan, Ballinultagh, d. 1855-12-24 age 36.  (so born in 1819)

        Brigid Cryan, Ballinultagh, d. 1852-01-??, age 74.  (so born ca. 1778)

This John Cryan died only two years before the Griffith's valuation had

mygreat-great-grandfather, James Cryan (see below), renting in

Ballinultagh. Ballinultagh was a small place, so John and Brigid may have lived on

thesame farm. 

My great-great-grandparents:

James CRYAN and Honor BEIRNE married Feb. 8, 1853 in Kilfree and

Killaragt R.C. Parish  [This parish was much larger than it is now.]


Michael (b.1854, Boyle >USA; d.1885-1936, Lowell, MA USA(?))

James (b.1859, Boyle; d. after 1941, pr. Boyle) m. Ann Cryan (b.Brougher,Ballinafad, Co. Sligo), no children

Hanoria c 22 Nov 1863 Boyle RC

John (b.1865, Boyle; d. after 1941, pr. Boyle), never married

Martin (b.1861 Boyle, some records say 1864 or 1867 - that is why the

life insurance didn't pay off when he d. 1936 Lowell, MA  USA) arrived in

Boston on 31 March 1881 aboard the ship "Palastine",

Brigid (or "Delia") (b.1856, Boyle; d. 1941, Lowell, MA USA) m. Kinney;

 Anne (b.1857, Boyle; d. Ulster?); m. Welsh or Walsh and moved to


Mary Jane (b.1869, Boyle>Lowell, MA USA>Boyle)


Eve found my great-great-great grandparents (probably):

 > The most probable parents for James CRYAN are

> Michael CRYAN and Bridgit FURY(various spellings)

> The names fit those of James first two children

> children

> Anne c 20 Nov 1816 Boyle RC

> Mary c 1 April 1819 Boyle RC

> Winifred c 24 Oct 1820 Boyle RC

> Bridget c 9 Oct 1822 Boyle RC

> James c 2 July 1824 Boyle RC ***** your James ????

> Margaret c 5 April 1826 Boyle RC

> John c   March 1830 (no date given)


Now, the question is, does anyone have a connection between James'

familyand the John and Brigid who died in Ballinultagh in the 1850's? 

Here's some pure speculation:

Brigid (1778-1852) and (John?) Cryan (1770-1818)

        (James?) and Anne Cryan (b. 1799 or so) oldest son, inherits the farm

(that is, the lease)

                John Cryan (1819-1855) only son, inherits the farm, but dies without

(male) children         Michael Cryan (b. 1800 or so) finds a lease in Sligo?,

somehow, and raises a family

                James (1824-?), oldest son, inherits his grandfather James' farm whenJohn dies

                This speculation is consistent with James (b.1824) coming from Sligo in

the 1850's.

It is consistent with the family on the farm for 1200 years.

It is consistent with Eve's naming patterns (see below).

It is consistent with traditions of inheritance, as I understand them.

(I read "The Irish Countryman" by Arenburg(?) and found that it explained

an awful lot of what seemed to be family nonsense; I'd very strongly

recommend it for those of you who've traced the line as far back as Ireland.)

Does anyone have a family that fits this speculation?  Eve, how did I do?


First son/daughter named after Paternal Grandfather/grandmother

Second son/daughter named after Maternal Grandfather/grandmother

Third son/daughter named after Father's Oldest Brother/Sister

Fourth son/daughter named after Father/Mother 


  From:         "hilnders" <>  | Add to Address Book | Block address Subject:

        Genealogy Book site   Date:        Thu, 6 May 1999 08:03:32 -0700    To:

This is a great site and if you have never checked it out, I think you

willwant to bookmark it and visit often.  This site specializes in

Genealogy andHistory books, Including out of print books.

TTFN, Lynda

Lynda's Genealogy Homepage


  From:  | Add to Address Book | Block address   Date:        Fri, 7 May 1999 10:19:12 EDT

 Subject:        [CRYAN-L] Re: Mormon list of names    To:

Responding to Dottie's  question re: access to the LDS' list:

Actually, I transcribed a list of Crean/Crains, etc. and posted it

through the list some time ago.  I have it in a spreadsheet ... want me to look

something up?  I know not everything is there -- both because of date

limitations, limited locations, etc.  So don't get too hopeful ... but

I'd happily look something up for you (or anyone).  (If you haven't posted

your research through the mailing list yet, do it that way, just in case one

of your as-yet-unknown cousins is subscribed and recognizes a name) ....



From:  | Add to Address Book | Block address   Date:        Fri, 7 May 1999 17:46:04 EDT

 Subject:        [CRYAN-L] Fwd from GenIre: Re: Naturalization    To:

I thought this an interesting bit of trivia for those in the US -- I

doubt Canadians would have had to go through this bit???

I'm always interested in this naturalization bit because my Ggrandmom

Agnes Cryan Smyth never naturalized in the US, although she owned property,

lived here a total of 50+ years, and her husband naturalized ... she

maintained her British citizenship (she left - the first time - mid-teens this


Does anyone have anything to add about naturalizations?  It's an

interesting insight into personality, in my case, but might be just as interesting

as a history lesson ... Leslie



You raised a good point that probably is confusing to many who are not

familiar with Irish history.  Ireland even though a separate country

geographically,   was not independent of England, it was part of the

BritishEmpire and thus the people of Ireland were British citizens (the great

majority- unwilling) even though they were Irish. That is why the

naturalization papers state:

"I do absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance

>and fidelity to any foreigh Prince, Potentate, State or Sovereignty

>whattever; and particularly to the Queen of the United Kingdom of

Great>Britian and Ireland of whom I was before a subject".

My Grandfather's naturalization papers in 1898 also had"  Victoria

Queen ofGreat Britain, Ireland and Empress of India".

I have a georgraphy book that belonged to one of my Irish grandmothers.

 Shelived in County Down and the book was printed in 1893.

Ireland was  listed as part of the British Islands - "The United

Kingdom ofGreat Britain and Ireland consists of a large group of islands,

situated inthe North Atlantic Ocean, near the estern coast of Central Europe.

The area is 121,607 square miles; the population in 1891 was


Relgions - There are in the British Islands about 32 millions of

Protestantsof various denominations, and 5 1/2 millions of Roman Catholics"

(mostly theIrish).

It goes onto refer to the Dominion of Canada as British America.  It is

fascinating reading.  It even has the population of many Irish cities

in1891. Part of your question is answered in the statement in the book


"The British Empire is the largest and except China, the most populous

inthe world.  It has been truly said that "the sun never sets on the

Queen'sdominions," for we have possessions in Europe, Asia, Africa, America

andAustralia.  The area of the British Empire is more than 11 millions of

square miles, almost one fifth of all the land on the surface of the

earth.The population exceeds 366 millions more than one fourth of the

estimatedinhabitants of the earth"

So, since your relative left Ireland before Home Rule and Independence,

hewas a British subject thus the formal renouncing of the foreign ruler

ofGreat Britain.Siochain (peace)Margaret (Miaread)


>Barney Tyrwhitt Drake wrote:

>>Barney, nice sketch of what was going on in labor migrations trends

at the>time. Thanks for such an informative piece.

>>The paragraph above which you wrote caught my eye, particularly the

>line..."many more people today who think of themselves as English or

Scots>have more than a little Irish ancestry".

>>On my grandfathers US naturalization certificate of 1875, the King´s

county>of the State of New York confers US citizenship on my grandfather with

the>final wording...

>>QUOTE : "I do absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all

allegiance>and fidelity to any foreigh Prince, Potentate, State or Sovereignty

>whattever; and particularly to the Queen of the United Kingdom of

Great>Britian and Ireland of whom I was before a subject". ENDQUOTE

>>My grandfather  SAID on his marriage certificate he was from England

(not>that he was English...that he was FROM ENGLAND). This is different

from all>the family saying he and his ancesters were Irish (he was John James

>Molloy, born of John Molloy and Katherine Harnet...seems that the

Irish was>certainly in the names, to be sure!).

>>Why does a document such as a US naturalization document lump the

Queen of>the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland all together? (this is

my>ignorance of history asking you). If one was of Irish blood and

ancestry>and coming from a geographic area considered as Ireland, speaking in

the>stricter geographic terms you have more or less discussed in your

>explanations, was one considered still and all to be a British

(English)>subject as though to say one possessed or had the right ot possess an

>English passport?

>What was the likelihood of an Irish person, who may have migrated

first to>England before moving on to North America, to have been documented

>(passport or other personal but legal document of the times when the

Irish>migrated) as an Irish "citizen" or as a British "citizen"...I´ll not

use>the word subject here, although it may have a bearing, I do not know?

>>Perhaps this is all a bit hypothetical. Well, it certainly is in my

case>for the moment, since I have not been able to trace my grandfather

back to>times earlier that this 1875 naturalization document.  I am convinced

I>will eventually find he was born of Irish blood and geographical

origins,>so I wanted to get a feel for the times: "all the same but separate

and>unequal" or "all the same and all equal" aspects, for example, either

>legally or however.>Hope I have not been too confusing? I´m somewhat confused myself, so

excuse>me if my questions are not the right ones to ask.

>>Thanks for trying to shed some light for me.. Regards. Jonathan Smith

>>SENDER´S NAME: Jonathan E. Smith


From:  | Add to Address Book | Block address   Date:        Fri, 7 May 1999 22:49:35 EDT Subject:        [CRYAN-L] (no subject)    To:

Hi Cryan name is Judy and I too like that rest of you are

looking for info on the surname Cryan... I have been in contact via private

email with Roger Cryan from this list and it looks like his Martin Cryan is a

brother to my Michael John Cryan who in the late 1800's came from

Ireland to Lowell, MA.  I have not had the time to read all the back archives from

this list. As I do and if I make connections anywhere or can help others

make connections from what info I have on hand I will let you know.  Here is

a start to my search.... looking for ancestors or descendants either one.

James Cryan and Hanoria Bierne married in Ireland and had: (Now know

there were other children)

 Michael John Cryan born 1855 died 20 Aug 1929 in Columbus, Franklin

Co, OH. He married  16 Sept 1883 in Lowell, MA to Ellen Margaret Meehan a girl

from Sligo Co, Ire. In Lowell. .He left Lowell at some point came to

Woonsocket, RI where he stayed a few years and then went on to Ohio at the urging

of one of his children most likely James. (I hear an electrician by

trade….maybe learned from his Uncle James the electrician?)  On those papers it

stated Michael Cryan was a grocer and on  Michael Reilly's  was a butcher I

guess the store on Market St was somewhat of a joint venture. Michael Reilly

was John F. Reilly's father (below) he was a witness on Michael Cryan's

naturalization papers.

Mary Honara Cryan born 6 Dec 1884 married John F. Reilly and had 5

children. (These are my grandparents) There children were Paul 1915,  Mary J.


John F. 1918,  Leonard B. (my dad) 1922 and Helen M. 1927 (only Helen

survives at this time.)

Anne T. Cryan Sep 1886 never married

James   May 1888 married but a lost twig….. family history says he was

an electrician and moved to near Toledo, OH. Have never really looked in

earnest for him although there are Cryans in that area. This is the son that

urged to family to leave Woonsocket, RI and join him in the Midwest. All of them

went there with the exception of my grandmother who stayed in Woonsocket

with her husband John Reilly. (Would love to find this branch!)

Ella M. 28 Dec 1889/93 never married

Frances L. 5 Aug 1894 married a Leo Peter Duplisses but was struck with

crippling arthritis and spent most of her life in a nursing home.

William H. 15 Nov 1895 was told he never married but found a newspaper

article that said he was.

Hope we can help each other out... thanks.


Reply-to:             "Family History" < >       From:             "Family History" < >  | Add to Address Book | Block address       Date:             Sat, 8 May 1999 09:49:08 +0100 Organization:             Family Spackman     Subject:             [CRYAN-L] Naturalisation and Origins         To:   

Just a word concerning nationality in Ireland.

Just like USA people in Ireland are from a great mixture of origins.

Therehas been constant toing and froing from England ,Wales, Scotland ,

Scandinavia, France ,Germany ,Spain and Portugal since very early times

because of the proximity. St Patrick abt 390 - 461 AD was

Romano-British andtaken captive to Ireland c 405 AD. He then escaped and went to France

andreturned to Ireland as a missionary about 432 AD after being ordained a

priest. There were settlement movements from England in the 1300s

particularly to the Cork area and to the Dublin area . Recently found

outside Dublin and being excavated is a Roman Settlement/port ( c 100 -

200AD) linked with Holyhead in Wales (now a ferry port). The Costello clan

aresupposed to have originated in Spain having come about the time of the

Spanish Armada about 1630 or so.

It was after the harsh anti Catholic laws of Cromwell's time and

particularly after the Battle of the Boyne in William of Orange.s reign

(1690) when Catholic land was confiscated and many were forced to the

westthat a feeling of outrage developed a feeling of nationhood.

It then poses the question "What does it mean to have Irish roots ?"

Perhaps there are deeper layers to the rooting system.




Date:        Mon, 10 May 1999 23:37:40 -0400

  From:        "Matthew J. Weismantel" <>  | Add to Address Book | Block address

 Subject:        [CRYAN-L] John CRYAN and wife Mary FARRELL    To:

Hello everyone,

I am new to the list, but I am looking for information about John CRYAN

andhis wife Mary F. FARRELL who died in NYC 20 Oct 1938.  Below is

informationI have on his family through 3 generations.  Does this match and other

researchers information.  I would look forward to any feedback or

information.Matt Weismantel

First Generation

1. John CRYAN.

John married Mary F. FARRELL. Mary F. died on 20 Oct 1938 in New YorkCity.

They had the following children:

 2 i. Mary Teresa (1882-1941)

 3 ii. Belle

 4 iii. John

 5 iv. Agnes

 6 v. William

 7 vi. Thomas


Second Generation

2. Mary Teresa CRYAN. Born on 16 Dec 1882 in Bronx, New York. Mary

Teresadied in Queens, New York on 18 Oct 1941; she was 58. Buried in St.

JohnsCemetery, Queens Borough, New York. Occupation: Homemaker.

On 25 Nov 1903 when Mary Teresa was 20, she married Patrick BURKE, son

ofJohn BURKE & Esther BENNET, in St. Jeromes Church, New York, New York.

Bornon 2 Mar 1872 in Birr, County Offaly, Diocese Kellaloe, Ireland.

Patrickdied in 115-80 219th Street, Cambria Heights, Queens, New York on 30

Nov1945; he was 73.

They had the following children:

 8 i. William Jerome (1910-1966)

 9 ii. Thomas Ignatius (1907-1973)

 10 iii. John Joseph (1908-1976)

 11 iv. Patrick R. (1905-1905)

3. Belle CRYAN. Occupation: School Principle in Brooklyn, NY (around

St.George Hotel).

4. John CRYAN.

5. Agnes CRYAN. Occupation: Nun.

6. William CRYAN.

William married ?.

They had one child:

 12 i. William

7. Thomas CRYAN.

Thomas married ?.

They had one child:

 13 i. Patricia


Third Generation

8. William Jerome BURKE. Born on 30 Apr 1910 in Brooklyn, New York.

WilliamJerome died in Winfield Park, New Jersey on 24 Mar 1966; he was 55.

Buriedin St. Gertrudes Cemetary, Colonia, NJ. Occupation: Kearny Ship Yards/

NJDepartment of Transportation. Education: 8th Grade.

On 18 Jun 1936 when William Jerome was 26, he married Leona Harriot

MORRIS,daughter of Harry Norton MORRIS & Mae Louise CARR, in St. Sylvester

Church,Brooklyn, New York. Born on 15 May 1917 in Brooklyn, New York.

They had one child:

  i. Mary Louise (1938-)

9. Thomas Ignatius BURKE. Born on 26 Oct 1907 in Bronx, New York.

ThomasIgnatius died in 2463 Gulf to Bay Blvd., Clearwater, Florida on 2 Oct

1973;he was 65.

On 16 Jul 1932 when Thomas Ignatius was 24, he married Mildred

CatherineROBINSON, daughter of William Alfred ROBINSON III & Catherine SAUTTER,

inOffice of the City Clerk, Queens, New York. Born in 1911. Mildred

Catherinedied in Clearwater, Florida on 2 Jul 1982; she was 71.

They had one child:

  i. Audrey Jacqueline (1935-)

10. John Joseph BURKE. Born on 15 Sep 1908. John Joseph died on 5 Nov

1976;he was 68.

On 22 Aug 1936 when John Joseph was 27, he married Margaret DARIUS.

Theywere divorced.

11. Patrick R. BURKE. Born on 3 Oct 1905. Patrick R. died on 10 Oct


12. William CRYAN.

13. Patricia CRYAN.


Date:        Tue, 11 May 1999 18:21:06 +1000  From: (George Simpson)  | Add to Address Book | Block address Subject:        [CRYAN-L] John Creegan (b. abt. 1830, Co. Louth)


Dear Cryan Listers

I am trying from Australia (not very successfully) to research

the forebears of my husband's American family.

I am looking for a family of Creegans possibly from Drogheda,

County Louth. There were several brothers and possibly a set of

twins. At least three of these brothers left Ireland for far-

flung places, with one travelling to Australia (and was never

heard from again!)

John bought half of a joint ticket on board the Annapolis and

arrived in Baltimore in 1854. The ticket was owned by Catherine

and Hugh McCann (brother and sister from Co. Armagh). John is

listed on the NARA Passenger List as Hugh McCann, but at the

last minute Hugh could not travel and so his ticket was sold

to John. It is thought that John's parents were dead by the time

he left Ireland.

If I follow the Irish naming conventions, then I may be looking for

a Michael and Catherine Creegan with (at least) sons John and William.

Any help you can give me would be great, including assistance on

how to track these people down from Australia!

ThanksLynne SimpsonCanberra Australia


    Reply-to:             "Family History" < >       From:             "Family History" < >  | Add to Address Book | Block address       Date:             Tue, 11 May 1999 09:26:45 +0100 Organization:             Family Spackman     Subject:             [CRYAN-L] Re John CRYAN and Mary FARRELL         To:   

Hi Mathew,

Welcome, I am glad that you have posted your family of CRYANs.

As one of the CRYANs from England, we find that we come together in our

Irish roots.John CRYAN and Mary FARRELL are both common names so we need a few more

clues in order to go any further back.

Their first child was born in 1882 so that it is most probable that

theywere aged 18 or over. That gives the fact that they were born before

1864.Mary died in 1938 but no age given so if she were in her 80s she would

havebeen born 1848-58 or in her 70s 1858-68 thus can not be younger than

74.She could not have been older than about 45 when she had her youngest

childfor which there are no dates given but at a guess would be about 10

yearsafter the first. She then could not have been older than 35 in 1882 so

couldnot have been born before 1847.Thus Mary FARRELL was born between 1847 and 1864

Although the man has a much wider range of age possibilities ,it is

likelythat John was born during this period also.


>From the usual Irish naming patterns it is possible that John's

parents werecalled  John and Mary (first son and daughter's names.) and that Mary's

parents were Teresa or Belle and William.Do note that this is only a possibility, no more. Naming patterns werestrong in Ireland but often lost in a new country and towards 1900.

(Johnis a common CRYAN name but William is not)

The best place for more information at this stage would be the 1890/1

USAcensus which should give the children to that date and their ages, the

parents' ages ,where they were living, and possibly where they were

born(mine in the British 1881 census just give Ireland) but it may give the

county in Ireland.I think that you can also view the 1901 census in the USA which will

givefurther information.

The USA members of the group will explain where to view the censuses.

Good luck and happy hunting..............  perhaps you will find deeper

roots........... between us we have quite a lot of Irish records so

couldhelp further with a little more detail.Nearly all CRYANs come from the districts around the borders of thecountiesRoscommon, Sligo and Mayo in Ireland. Other name variations are found




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From:  | Add to Address Book | Block address    Date:          Tue, 20 Apr 1999 11:19:45 EDT Reply-To:  Subject:          [CRYAN-L] Dublin Directory, 1850


Again, from Gen-Ire (Sunday) -- I ought to start doing some original

research!  But GenIre mail is a good read, and full of gems like this

one.  A woman named Trish posted that she has been transcribing the Dublin City

Directory, and the below pages are her efforts (not quite finished, butnearly there, I believe).  -Leslie

Dublin City Directory of 1850

Lord Mayors of Dublin (1726-1924)

Meanings of Irish place names