You list the marriage details for John Cryan and Mary Anne O'Neil. I

already had this but hadn't got the names of their fathers. Do you

still have the source of that information? I would be very interested in it.

Incidentally, there is a close connection with the Hannon surname at

this level of the family. While I haven't been able to confirm that

they are my ancestors yet, Keash Church records lists a Matthew Cryan who

married a Bridget Hannon on 18 Feb 1944. This date comes just 2 years

before the birth of John Cryan and so its quite possible that its my

ancestor. If you have found evidence that John's father was indeed

Matthew, then its almost certain in my mind that this couple were his


You name Arthur as the father of Mary Ann O'Neil. Again, I would be

very interested in the source of this information. O'Neil is not a common

name in those parts and I was told that they were originally from Co.

Donegal. I'm not sure how far I have to go back to get the Donegal

connection. I believe that the O'Neil's were farmers in Daughloonagh in

Bunnanaddan (I think its now referred to as Baghloonagh). Mary Ann

O'Neil's father died when she was young and her widowed mother (Norah

Keevins) remarried a John Gallagher (1829:1919). In Kilaville Church,

which is near Bunnanadden, there is a window donated by John Gallagher

underneath which reads "Erected by John Gallagher of Daughloonagh in

memory of my wife Norah, my brother Martin and my son Michael".

I would also be very interested in finding out the source of your

information for the 2 Matthew Cryans :-

Mathew Cryan b.1811 died 1891 age 80

Mathew Cryan b. 1818 died 1898 age 80

Thanks again for all the information which you have posted. It has been

very helpful to me.regardsMichael


From: Wurci2@aol.comAdd to Address Book

Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 15:49:47 EST Subject:

[CRYAN-L] Cregan 1860's Ireland query To:

I'm searching for information on the family of Catherine Cregan. She

wassupposedly born 08 OCT 1862. Her parents were Daniel and Margaret

(Moylan {orMullen}) Cregan. Her husband John Reidy came from Newcastle West,

Limerick soI suppose she was from that vicinity. They settled in Worcester County

Massachusetts in the 1880's. I was told she had relatives in New York.

Anyleads would be appreciated. Thank you.


From: "Roger Cryan and Regina Pana-Cryan" <>Add to

Address Book Subject: Fw: [CRYAN-L] From Sligo to Boyle in 1850's

Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 22:55:24 -0500 To:

Thanks much to Voltene for the information on the Lowell Cryans. Below

Iadd a little more, using Voltene's info and the family history stuff

I'vedug out of its box among boxes.

---------- Roger Cryan Email:

James Cryan (d. before 1901, Boyle) m.(m.c.1853; Kilfree and Killaragt

R.C. parish, Co. Sligo) Honoria Byrne (or Honora or Honor Bierne),

moved,pr. 1854, to Ballynanulthagh (or Ballinultha) townland; Boyle parish;




Michael (b.1854, Boyle >USA; d.1885-1936, Lowell, MA USA(?))

James (b.1859, Boyle; d. after 1941, pr. Boyle) m. Ann Cryan (b.

Brougher,Ballinafad, Co. Sligo), no children

John (?) (b.1865, Boyle; d. 1865?)

John (b.1866, Boyle; d. after 1941, pr. Boyle), never married

Martin (b.1861 Boyle, some records say 1864 or 1867 - that is why the

lifeinsurance didn't pay off when he d. 1936 Lowell, MA USA) arrived in

Bostonon 31 March 1881 aboard the ship "Palastine",

Brigid (or "Delia") (b.1856, Boyle; d. 1941, Lowell, MA USA) m. Kinney;

Anne (b.1857, Boyle; d. Ulster?); m. Welsh or Walsh and moved to

Ulster.Mary Jane (b.1869, Boyle>Lowell, MA USA>Boyle)

The Kilfree and Kilaragt R.C. Parish of County Sligo was much larger

thatit is now.Both Martin had numerous children.

When James Cryan moved with his new wife to Ballynanultagh, he came

fromsomewhere in Sligo with a family by the name of Rorke. There is a

FarrellRorke sharing a lease with James Cryan and a Patrick Rorke on an

adjoining(?) leasehold in the 1857 Griffiths Valuation for the





I don't know where these Cryans came from in Sligo, which might lead

backto previous generations. There are at least two possible sources for


1. Paddy Rorke, who was living in Boyle in 1997, is the grandson (?)

ofthe Rorkes who came to Ballynanultagh along with James Cryan. He might

know something about this; if someone comes across him, please ask him.

2. The estate records for the Viscount Lorton, esp. for 1853-54. The

Viscounts Lorton, unusually among large Irish landlords of the time,

managed his estates through an agent, rather than farming them out

throughlayers of middlemen. For this reason, the estate records are likely to

contain details of individual tenant farmers. I can only assume, based

onthe large size of Lorton's estate (which covered most of north

Roscommonand large areas of Sligo and Leitrim) that James Cryan's parents were

alsohis tenants, and that some record of the origin of James Cryan or his

compatriot Rorkes is made in the estate records. If anyone is looking

through the Lorton estate records, please see if there is anything on


As I said before, I hope some of this has been of help to others, and

thatsomeone can tell me a thing or two. In kinship, Roger Cryan

Reply-To: "Family History" < >

From: "Family History" < >Add to Address Book

Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 08:59:48 -0000

Subject: [CRYAN-L] BOYLE town: - part 4


Extract from Parliamentary Gazetteer 1842 - 4

Boyle town - part 4

Municipal Affairs:

The town was incorporated by charter of 11 James I; and had also a

charter,never acted on, of 4 James II. the borough limits are not defined by

charter, but are minutely traced, for proposed adoption, in the Report of

1837, onMunicipal Boundaries. The corporation is styled, "The Boroughmaster,

FreeBurgesses, and Commonality of the Borough of Boyle", and consists,

accordingto charter, of a boroughmaster, 12 free burgesses, and an indefinite

numberof commonality: but, at the date of the Municipal Corporation 's

Inquiry,the boroughmaster and burgesses were all in effect the nominees of Lord

Lorton, the patron of the borough, and 6 of the latter had no other

connection with the town than by being the patron's relations or

friends.The corporation, as puppets of the Earl of Kingston, returned two

members tothe Irish parliament; and, at the Legistlative Union, Lord Lorton ,as

theEarl of Kinston's executor, received the 15,000of compensation for

disenfranchisement. There is no borough property. A court of record,

withjuristicion to the amount of 3 6s 8d., and presided over by the

boroughmaster, was created by the borough charter, and continued to be

theonly care of the corporation after they were relieved from their

'onerousduty' of sending members to parliament. A seneschal's court held in the

town, has no juristicion in the town itself, but wields authority over

manymiles around it, and within the limits of several baronies of the

county.Petty-sessions are held by county magistrates, who reside near the

town. Theonly police are a party of the county constabulary.

Statistics: -

Area of the town,237 acres.

Poulation, in 1831, 3,433; in 1841, 3,235.

Houses 495.

Families employed chiefly in agriculture, 169; in manufactures andtrade,

369; in other pursuits,157.

Families supported chiefly by property and professions,23; by the

directionof labour, 364;by their own manual labour, 246; by means not specified, 56;

Males at and above the age of 5 years of age who could read and write,

783;who could read but not write, 171; who could neither read nor write,

448.Females at and above the age of 5 years of age who could read and

write,470; who could read but not write, 309; who could neither read nor

write,682.(note:- this gives 327 children under 5)

This is the end of the Boyle extract.


From: Fatarm@aol.comAdd to Address Book

Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 10:54:14 EST

Subject: [CRYAN-L] Irish language (from a variety of sources)


I've been collecting information on the language of the Irish that some

othersof you may be interested in:

- - - - - - - - - - - - -

Posted on the GenIre mailing list:

You can find an example of the Irish Alphabet and the way it

is pronounced at

-Jenny FawcettI haven't checked it out - a lot of this person's site references

Tipperaryand Australia, but seems to be in a period of growth just now (post-er

islisting info new to her site often on GenIre-L).

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

A bit of news posted on GenIre, Thu, 29 Oct 1998 by

Subject: Irish Gaelic to be taught in British schools

Pardon this non-genealogy note, but I just had to pass the word, for

thosewhomay not have heard:

The BBC reports that Britain will, as of next Sept., allow students to

studyIrish Gaelic to fulfill their modern language requirement. They also

hope tobegin teacher and student exchanges between Ireland and Britain, and

hope toconnect their respective 'nets. For the full report, see the BBC Web

site, inthe Education section.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Also from GenIre, From:

Subject: Co. Cork - Some facts & statistics

The following is based on information from a post 1911 irish

directory. The most interesting thing here are the numbers of people who spoke

Irishand English vs. Irish only for the earlier years - these from one of

ourcounties which still has gaeltacht areas.

County of Cork: Cork, a maritime county is in the Province of

Munster, thelargest in Ireland, is bounded on the north by Limerick, on the east by

Tipperary &Waterford, on the south by the Atlantic ocean and on the west by Kerry.


Length from Dursey island in the south west to Kilbeheny near

Mitchellstownis 98 miles: greatest length from Crow Head to Youghal is 102 miles;

breadth from the boundary at Mullaghareirk Mountains is the south west

toRobert's Head south of Cork harbour is 54 miles.

The name of the county is derived from that of the city, being a

shortenedform of the Gaelic word Corcagh which signifies a marsh. The present

countclearly corresponds with the ancient sub kingdom of Desmond or south

Munster. Corka Laigdhe (pronounced Corkalee) the old territory of the

O'Driscolls comprised all the districts from Courtmacsherry Bay to

BantryBay, and the peninsula between Roaring Water Bay and Dunmanus Bay was

theancient Iveagh, the territory of the O'Mahony's. On the point of

Durseyisland are three sea rocks called in English, the Bull, the Cow and the

Calf; they are celebrated in legendary history as the place where Donn

oneof the Milesian brothers perished in a storm with the crew of his ship.

Several of the old territories are represented in name and position by

baronies. Thus the old district of Beanntraighe is the Barony of

Bantry;Cairbre the Barony of Carbery; Muscraighe the Barony of Muskerry;

Duthaighe-Eada the Barony of Duhallow; Feara-Muighe the Barony of

Fermoycalled in later ages, the Roches country.

Census Period Population Increase/Decrease

1821 730,444

1831 810,732 + 80,288

1841 854,118 +43,386

1851 649,308 -204,810

1861 544,818 -104,490

1871 517,076 -27,742

1881 495,607 -21,469

1891 438,432 -57,175

1901 404.611 -33,821

1911 392,104 -12,507

1926 365,747 -26,357


Families & Houses in 1926: The number of families in the county was

74,878,the average number in each family being 4.6. The number of inhabited

houseswas 63,245, showing an average of 4.9 people to each house.

There were in the county 37,445 occupiers or Heads of families who

were inoccupation of less than 5 rooms, being 50.1% of the total for the

county. Of these, 1,301 occupied one room; 7,729, two rooms; 10,649, three

roomsand 17,766, four rooms.

There were 639 tenements in the county in which the room had only one

occupant; 546 cases where the room had 2-4 occupants; 101 cases of 5-7

occupants and 15 cases where the room had more than 7 occupants

includingone case where ten persons occupied the same room.

Of the population in 1926, 89.2% were born in the county.

Religious Persuasion: % of popluation

No. of people 1926 1911 1901 1891 1881 1871

RC 271,072 94.34 91.45 91.32 91.3 91.7 91.5

C of I 13,791 4.86 7.29 7.31 7.4 7.2 7.1

Presbyter. 468 0.13 0.33 0.33 0.4 0.4 0.3

Methodists 1,221 0.42 0.65 0.68 0.7 0.5 0.5

All others 705 0.25 0.28 0.36 0.2 0.2 0.6

Education: In 1911 there were in the county 259,477 persons aged 9

years andupwards; of these 230,564 could read & write; 4,489 could read only and

24,424were illiterate.

Irish Speaking:

Years: 1911 1901 1891 1881 1871 1861

Irish only 557 1,065 2,270 5,571 11,532 16,478

Ir. & Eng. 76,648 96,914 110,246 156,785 135,437 178,979


Lastly, from a book I'm reading, "Perspectives on Irish Nationalism",

ed. by

Thomas E. Hachey & Lawrence J McCaffrey, The Univ. Press of Kentucky,


Lawrence J. McCaffrey's article, "Components of Irish Nationalism", p.


"In the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries the English state may have

beensecond to none in the ferocity of its campaigns against indigenous

languageand culture in Ireland and elsewhere, but its efforts in this respect

innineteenth-century Ireland were pusillanimous. The mainspring of

cultural andlinguistic change was popular response to economic realities. It was

populardemand for education in English that created the flourishing - and

chaotic -growth of pay schools in the early decades of the nineteenth century.

... Arecent ingenious analysis of the census data - which, while not a fully

satisfactory guide in language matters, are all we have to go on -

suggeststhat of Irish children born from 1801 to 1811, 45 percent may have been

brought up speaking Irish. For those born 1831-41, the estimated

percentagedropped to 28, and for those born 1861-71, to 13."

I thought this paragraph neatly answered my own previous inquiry into

why thelanguage/spelling of surnames seemed to change so dramatically right

aroundthe year 1800. There are also articles on the Folklore of Irish

Nationalism,The Land Question in Nationalist Politics, Irish Nationalism and the

BritishConnection, and others. The articles are well written and well thought

out,the result of a symposium on Irish Nationalism held in Chicago (which

isprobably why our otherwise pathetic public library collection has this

scholarly work).Ta till later, Leslie


From: Fatarm@aol.comAdd to Address Book

Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 10:56:20 EST

Subject: [CRYAN-L] For Cork researchers (Cork-ers??)


Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 22:09:17 -0500

From: "Elizabeth W. Knowlton" <>


Subject: Marriages, Diocese of Cork & Ross, 1716-1844

First I want to thank from the bottom of my heart the wonderful

people who recommended I look at Albert Casey's 14+ vols. of extracts

fromrecords in the Upper Blackwater, Cork/Kerry area. You are right: it is

agoldmine. I won't go on about all the breakthroughs I have made, but last

night I found reference to a marriage record that I think is my 3rd

greatgrandparents'. It was in vol. 4 of the Casey vols. under a heading, "

Marriages, Diocese of Cork and Ross, 1716-1844, Public Records Office,

Dublin (generally deficient in Roman Catholic records and pre-1740)."

Allit had was "William Winspeare Rogers McCarthy married Eleanor Hegarty,

1829." I know the PRO is now the Natl Library on Kildare St. Would

thisbe an index or an extraction? I have looked through Grenham [it is not

mentioned under Church Records] and think perhaps it is a manuscript

indexto original applications for marriage licenses [as opposed to marriage

bybanns]. Casey seems to have made a photographic copy of a printed item

because he has it laid out and reduced to fit four original pages to

one ofhis. I want to know if more information is available, or is this what

isleft after the 1922 fire destroyed some other document?

Also, I have studied several books and sort of know where the

diocese of Cork and Ross is, but is it a Roman Catholic diocese since I

donot see it listed under the Church of Ireland diocese maps? This

familywas Cof I by 1845 but could have been RC earlier.

Also, is everyone still off on some other listserve because I

amgetting only 5-10 messages a day from GenIre when I used to get many

more?Elizabeth Winspeare Knowlton

From: Fatarm@aol.comAdd to Address Book

Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 11:20:30 EST

Subject: [CRYAN-L] Web sites: newspapers and Irish links


This was forwarded from Lee-L, through Murphy-L, to us:

Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 17:23:31 -0800

From: Patti Easton <>

Subject: [LEE-L] searchable newspapers

I received this link this morning, and thought it worthy enough to pass

on.Searchable index to newspapers, also providing FULL text view after


1) The Pennsylvania Gazette 1728-1800

2) The Civil War: A Newspaper Perspective November 1860 - April 1865

(from the Charleston Mercury * The New York Herald * RichmondEnquirer)

3) a database of 19th century African American newspapers,

4) The Pennsylvania Newspaper Record: Delaware County 1819-1870.

5) The Pennsylvania Genealogical Catalogue: Chester County 1809-1870

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 00:09:23 -0000

From: "Jane O'Brien" <>

Subject: Some Irish URL's/Irish Links

Irish National Teachers Organisation

Bord Falite: Irish tourist board hhtp://

Cork, the Friendly City

Swift: Ireland only search engine

Northern Ireland Tourism

Irish Newspapers:

Irish Times

Belfast Telegraph

Irish News Global Edition

Munster Express

Clare Champion

Galway Advertiser

Anderstown News

In Dublin (magazine)

Dublin Event Guide

Westmeath Examiner

Irish Broadcasters:



FM 104

The complete guide to Galway

Dublin VR


From: Fatarm@aol.comAdd to Address Book

Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 21:11:38 EST

Subject: [CRYAN-L] Debrett's on Landlord, Viscount Lorton


I've come across the Viscount Lorton as a landholder/landlord often in

thecourse of my research on the O'Crean family, mostly in Co. Roscommon,

but alsoin Co. Sligo. I finally got around to "looking him up" in Debrett's at

thelibrary, and thought I'd transcribe (for those of you who may be

interested)the entry on the Viscount's predecessors. The title was created in the

19thc. for a second son and then was combined back into the main family

line ofthe Earls of Kingston as described below:

[This is from a 1950 Debrett's, ed. by Hankinson, pages 619-20:]

Residence: Annaghboy, Boyle, Co. Roscommon

(1) Robert King, P.C., M.P. for Co. Roscommon; cr. a Baronet 1682; d.

1702: his el. son

(2) Sir John, 2nd Bt., M.P. for Co. Roscommon; d.s.p. 1720; s. by his


(3) Sir Henry, P.C., 3rd Bt.; M.P. for Co. Roscommon: m. 1722 Isabella

Wingfield, sister of 1st Viscount Powerscourt; d. 1740; s. by his el.


(4) Sir Robert, 4th Bt.; cr. Baron Kingsborough (peerage of Ireland)

1748; d.unmarried 1755 when the barony expired, and the baronetcy devolved upon


(5) Sir Edward, 5th Bt.; cr. Baron Kingston of Rockingham, Co.

Roscommon(peerage of Ireland) 1764, Viscount Kingston of Kingsborough, Co. Sligo

(peerage of Ireland) 1766, and Earl of Kingston (peerage of Ireland)

1768; d.1797; s. by his son

(6) Robert, 2nd Earl; was M.P. for Co. Cork; his 2nd son, Robert

Edward, aGeneral in the Army, and Lord Lieutenant of Roscommon, was cr. Baron

Erris, ofBoyle, Co. Roscommon (peerage of Ireland) 1800 and Viscount Lorton, of

Boyle,Co. Roscommon (peerage of Ireland) 1806; the Earl d. 1799; s. by his


(7) George, 3rd Earl; cr. Baron Kingston of Mitchelstown, Co. Cork

(peerage ofU.K.) 1821; d. 1839; s. by his el. surviving son

(8) Robert Henry, 4th Earl; d. 1867; s. by his brother

(9) James, 5th Earl: m. 1860, Anne, dau. of Matthew Brinkley, of

Pasrsonstown,Meath; d.s.p. 1869, when the Barony of Kingston of Mitchelstown

expired, andthe Irish peerages reverted to his cousin

(10) Robert, 6th Earl, who had in 1854 s. his father as 2nd Viscount

Lorton[this is the Viscount Lorton referenced in Griffith's Land Valuation

therefore]; b. 1804: m. 1829, Anne, Dau. of Sir Robert Newcomen

Gore-Booth,Bt.; d. 1869; s. by his el. son

(11) Robert Edward, 7th Earl; d. 1871; s. by his brother

(12) Henry Ernest Newcomen, 8th Earl; b. 1848: Lord-Lieutenant of Co.

Roscommon, and a Representative Peer for Ireland; assumed by Roy.

Licence[sic] 1883, the additional surname of Tenison: m. 1872, Florence

MargaretChristine, who d. 1907, dau. of the late Col. Edward King Tenison of

KilronanCastle: d. 1896 ....

[I will provide the first half of the 20th c. info to anyone

interested, but Ifigure most of us care far more to shed light on the 19th c.]

From: Fatarm@aol.comAdd to Address Book

Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 12:10:58 EST

Subject: [CRYAN-L] Pass & Imm Indx Lists: Creg-, Crey-, and Crog- ans


Last night I had an opportunity to double-check some of my earliest

researchat the public library and picked up these additional listings for Creg

andCrog -ans:



Cregan, Francis: Phila., PA, 1858

Cregan, James: Phila., PA, 1860

Cregan, Michael: Phila., PA, 1868

Cregon, James: Phila., PA 1858

Creyon, Luke, age 20: NY, NY, 1803

Creyon, Roger, age 18: NY, NY, 1803

Croggan or Croggon, Henry B: Alexandria, VA, 1818

Croghan, Mrs. with two children: San Fran, CA, 1862

Croghan, John: Phila., PA, 1859

Croghan, John, age 24: NY, NY, 1847

Croghan, Margaret, 26: NY, NY, 1847

Crighan, Patrick, 28: NY, NY, 1847

Crohegan, Michael, age 20: Boston, MA, 1849

Crogan, J.J. age 30: Balt., MD, 1833

Crogan, Herman Peterson: S. Dakota, no date

Croghan, Dominic, age 19: Balt., MD 1874

If you can or think you can lay claim to one of these, please contact

me and Iwill give you the source information.




From Crogmos@aol.comAdd to Address Book

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 05:47:45 EST

Subject: [CRYAN-L] Messages-Wednesday



I have not received any post since last Friday, November 6th I am

wonderingif there is a problem.? I have received some from other sources so I

hope itis not my PC.I really appreciate all the Cryan details , although they have not as

yethelped me with my research , they are useful background. Best wishes to

allCryans ,Pat Moseley. Birmingham England



==== CRYAN Mailing List ====

Areas (N.Am.) researching: Boston, Lowell & Worcester, MA; Eldorado &

Milwaukee, WI; upstate NY; Oregon; Pittsburgh, PA; NY/NYC/NJ; IN/MO/IL;

N & S Dakota; Cleve., OH; Rainy River District, Ont. Canada.


Reply-To: "Family History" < >

From: "Family History" < >Add to Address Book

Subject: Re: [CRYAN-L] Messages-Wednesday

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 11:12:48 -0000


Hi, I think everyone is waiting for someone else to do the posting. Or

elseas I am at this minute, when they make a contact mailing to the person

notthe list - pity !!! (I also am sending this to the list)

Suggestion,there seem to be several people with interests in Lowell,

Massand I have just written to a person with Mass. interests inviting here

tojoin the list ......... why not write what you do know about your family

CRYAN for the whole list. Describe the bits that you do not know about,

askquestions about the bits you are currently interested in, family


I was very surprised to generate no reaction when I gave my reasons for

thinking it possible that my ancestor was the only CRYAN on the

AustralianTransportation list. I would have hoped that someone would have asked

something......... perhaps "How did you find out where the ship went

to?"Noone will answer questions that are not asked.

I am sure that everyone is saving all the titbits in case they are

usefulin the future.Good luck with your research, do ask some questions, you may be

surprisedand pleased with the results. (I live on hope - the greatest vitue ,I

think)Yours, Eve

Reply-To: "Family History" < >

From: "Family History" < >Add to Address Book

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 11:37:19 -0000

Subject: [CRYAN-L] Irish Language




Hi Everyone,

I am sorry not to have clipped the previous message, but once sent it

is toolate.Thought that anyone who is interested in the Irish Language might like

totry this site(with sound files) that though I have not tried,was

recommendedback in July.

Another site described as "Free interactive multimedia language

laboratoryon-line LINGOLAB. Learn Irish pronunciation, vocabulary and literature

usingmy FREE Swim-Two-Birds on-line interactive multimedia Language


and at you'll hear a

famousIrish poem in the Gaelic(you can read along in English and see how it is

pronounced too) - "The Midnight Court" by Brian Merriman 1780,

celebratesthe ..........I guess that you will find out.

Until again, Eve


==== CRYAN Mailing List ====

Surnames being researched by subscribers: Craigen/Creighan,

Crawn/Craun, Crane, Crain-e, Crean, Creen-e, Creagan/Cregan/Creaghan,



Reply-To: "Family History" < >

From: "Family History" < >Add to Address Book

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 12:19:10 -0000

Subject: [CRYAN-L] Boyle Registers


. I have come across some entries in these registers, (so far I have

much of1793,4,&5), relating to Robert CRYAN and Matilda it looks like Sythe or

Lythe or similar. Do you have any idea what it could be?I will post what I have to date when I have time.The list is quiet at the moment, could someone please say what they

thinkabout the web sites that we have recommended. I have not tried the

languageones so would love to hear what you think.Perhaps someone could tell me about the SHAMROCK list that I have heardmentioned but not tried.

I also think that ,as I am extracting and translating what I can from

theBoyle RC registers that they should go to the Leitrim and Roscommon

List.What do you think about trying to persuade EdFinn to include the

southernpart of Co Sligo as many of the parishes and the registration district

coverboth counties?Until again, Take care, Eve


==== CRYAN Mailing List ====

Other locations being researched by Subscribers: Australia; Wales;

Birmingham and Norwich, Eng.; Scotland


From: Fatarm@aol.comAdd to Address Book

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 21:01:18 EST

Subject: [CRYAN-L] No, Pat, I think we've all just been a bit quiet


this past weekend. However, I do have some news: everybody, please

welcomesubscriber #43, a Crehan researcher who referenced a burial listing in

Pittsburgh (if I'm remembering correctly). I hope we'll read of her

researchsoon through the list.I've finished inputting the LDS' "thru-March 1988" data output sent onbyCaoimhghin this past weekend (19 pages of hardcopy), and I'm starting

to sortout who might be interested in what. It's rather large, too large to

sendthrough the list, so I'm picking out pieces to send everyone, based on

yourpostings -- sorting by surnames, first names and locations. I'll try

dates,too, come to think of it. I know some people will have direct hits,

but manyof us may just be intrigued by the possibilities of connections. It'll

takeme a couple of weeks to get to everyone, and I'll send it directly

rather thanthrough the list. At least that's what I'm thinking -- I'd be happy to

entertain any other idea, because I think the data worth sharing with

everyone. -- Leslie


==== CRYAN Mailing List ====

Areas (Ire) researching: Bandon and Glounthaune, Cork; Castlebar, Mayo;

Wexford; Dingle Peninsula; Caherciveen, Kerry; Newcastle West & Glin,

Limrk; Donegal; Nenagh, Tipp; Ballybane, Galway; Boyle & Keash, Sligo


From: Fatarm@aol.comAdd to Address Book

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 21:10:43 EST

Subject: [CRYAN-L] Co. Leitrim/Rosc. web pages


Eve and all,

Has anyone had any contact with Mr. Finn? I admit to having writing

but neverreceived a response (at least not to memory), so I have an impression

thathe's a busy guy.I think writing to other researchers is great -- I only wish everyone

wasonline! Leslie



==== CRYAN Mailing List ====

Areas (N.Am.) researching: Boston, Lowell & Worcester, MA; Eldorado &

Milwaukee, WI; upstate NY; Oregon; Pittsburgh, PA; NY/NYC/NJ; IN/MO/IL;

N & S Dakota; Cleve., OH; Rainy River District, Ont. Canada.


From: Fatarm@aol.comAdd to Address Book

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 21:14:50 EST

Subject: [CRYAN-L] Irish Emigrant conditions


The county Cork mailing list has been having a bunch of postings on the

following article, so I thought I'd repost here for all you

Cork-ers/Cork-ians(what IS the correct word?!) and just as general interest Ireland.

---------------Here is the site where the article is

<A HREF="">An Irish

Emigrant 1864</A> <----click here or type address below



==== CRYAN Mailing List ====

Have you come across a Craine while doing Creahan research? Post it



From: (MS JULIA M CASE)Add to Address Book


Wed, 11 Nov 1998 22:56:51, -0500


RootsWeb Review, Vol. 1, No. 22




ROOTSWEB REVIEW: Genealogical Data Cooperative News

Vol. 1, No. 22, 11 November 1998; Circulation: 229,000+

Copyright (c) 1998 RootsWeb Genealogical Data Cooperative

This article first appeared in the National Genealogical Society

Computer Interest Group's "NGS/CIG DIGEST," Volume 17 Number 4,

July August 1998.





by Karen Isaacson


The Internet, and genealogy on the Internet, have both been

around far longer than many online genealogists realize. "On

Distributed Communications Networks" by P. Baran, one of the

first papers describing how the Internet would be built, was

published by RAND as P-2626 in 1962. If you're interested, you

can read the abstract or order a copy online at <http://>. In

1969, four computers were linked together, and the network was


Not much of genealogical interest happened for awhile, though.

About a decade later, newgroups and the USENET were begun. There

was so little traffic that I used to read all messages in all

groups in a few minutes over lunch, and still had time to take a

walk. By 1983, the newsgroup net.roots, named after the popular

Roots miniseries, had been launched, and with it, genealogy on

the Internet.

What, you may be wondering, does all that ancient history have to

do with RootsWeb and USGenWeb? Easily explained: we're

genealogists, interested in determining the roots of things, and

RootsWeb and USGenWeb are the logical descendants of those early


The Internet, until a few years ago, was an aggressively non-

commercial place. There was no spam, there were no

advertisements. Customer support was usually conducted via e-mail

rather than in the newsgroups, and people even felt slightly

queasy about using e-mail for such commercial purposes, believe

it or not. Access, if you could get it at all, was "free" -- from

an employer, from a university, perhaps (later) from a community-

based Freenet. There was a culture of volunteers working

together, to make resources freely available to the general

community. There was no World Wide Web. The tools used by most

netizens were e-mail, FTP, and perhaps telnet.

I'm not sure when mailing lists first started appearing.

LISTSERV, one of the most common programs for supporting mailing

lists, was started in late 1986. In 1987, Alf Christophersen of

Norway, and Marty Hoag of North Dakota State University, started

the ROOTS-L mailing list, and gatewayed it with soc.roots, the

Usenet newsgroup (renamed from net.roots shortly before.)

With the creation of ROOTS-L, things began to happen. John Wilson

proposed a database of surnames people were searching in late

1988. When he was unable to maintain it, I took it over. The RSL,

or RootsWeb Surname List, now contains [more than] half a million

surnames submitted by over 60,000 Internet genealogists. This

probably makes it the largest cooperative genealogical effort

on the net, in terms of participation. The RSL is available

online at <>.

About the same time, Cliff Manis got permission from Marty Hoag

to start a library of genealogy files on the NDSU FTP server and,

with help from various ROOTS-L participants, made hundreds of

files freely available to anyone on the network. That library is

still available, though it's getting to be an interesting period

piece, its value overtaken by wonderful new resources such as the

USGenWeb archives. If you would like to visit it, it's now

available at <>.

My favorite is called genealog.interbbs, at


What is genealog.interbbs? A complete listing (dated December

1991) of BBSs with Internet access. There are all of thirty or so

listed.Times change. The Internet has broadened to include the world at

large. [Prodigy], AOL, CompuServe, and the other online services

provided access, and the world arrived with a roar in our quaint

little academic cul de sac. We didn't (quite) say, "There goes

the neighborhood," but I do confess that there was some

nervousness about the hordes of new folk. Would they wipe their

feet? Keep their voices down? Would they get it?

The transition has been, at times, rocky. But I think it's now

safe to claim that those wonderful attributes and attitudes of

the old Internet, people pulling together, people working

together to make resources freely available to the community,

have survived. They have more than survived, they are thriving

now as never before, and with wonderful results such as RootsWeb

and USGenWeb.It didn't happen overnight, though. One problem, of course, was

financial. Isn't it always? In the old Internet, resources such

as mailing lists and archives were typically provided by a

friendly university. ROOTS-L was at NDSU. The genealogical

methods mailing list, GENMTD-L, was launched at Georgia Tech.

But the staff and equipment required to support these "free"

resources rapidly grew, and, in a time of shrinking budgets,

often overwhelmed our hosts, who then, though with regret, had to

ask us to make alternative arrangements.

My husband, Dr. Brian Leverich, and I have been active in

genealogy on the Internet since 1986. By late 1995, we were

concerned about the future of genealogy on the Internet. We

weren't worried about its having a future, it clearly did. But we

were worried about what that future would be like. Would all data

be under lock and key, and only available in "pay per view" mode?

Would mailing lists, like magazines, have to charge their

subscribers a fee? When ROOTS-L had to leave NDSU and find a new

home, before eWorld/Apple offered to host us for free, it looked

like we would have to find $3,000 a year to pay to have the list

hosted. For someone imbued with the old Internet ethic, these

were daunting prospects. But what were the alternatives?

An alternative, and the one we chose, was simply to do it

ourselves. Brian had told me over and over, while I agonized

about what was to become of ROOTS-L, that we could host it

ourselves, on our equipment. I was skeptical. But we both thought

it possible that the community would voluntarily chip in enough

to cover hardware and bandwidth, and that resources such as the

ROOTS-L mailing list could continue to be freely available.

Thus was born RootsWeb. We wanted to call it, but

that name was already taken. It was scary, but exciting, and in

the early days of 1996, not too expensive. Since that time our

load has increased more than ten-fold, and our costs have

similarly increased. And at least to date, with help from

thousands of individual contributors and recently with the

corporate sponsorship by Palladium Interactive (publishers of

Ultimate Family Tree), the community has chipped in to make a

reality of our collective dream: a community-supported Internet

site that makes genealogical data and research facilities freely

available to all Internet genealogists. Folks interested in

helping RootsWeb can visit:


When did RootsWeb and USGenWeb begin their partnership? With

Linda Lewis, and her "TimeToDo" project (which evolved into the

USGenWeb Archives) in June of 1996. But it could have been

earlier: Jeff Murphy, the founder of USGenWeb, approached us

early in 1996 about providing Web space for Web pages for every

state. We didn't "get" it, it sounded like a duplication of the

Web pages ROOTS-L had already assembled for every state, which

can still be found at <>.

Jeff meant USGenWeb, and wandered off elsewhere to build the


USGenWeb, like RootsWeb, is an example of the old Internet

culture transitioning successfully onto the new Internet.

Thousands of volunteers are working together to provide Web sites

and free information about every county in every state in the

United States. They have an ambitious project to transcribe all

of the U.S. Federal Censuses and put them online. They have

another exciting project called the Tombstone Transcription

Project, for transcribing cemeteries. Everyone is pitching in

together, working to create something of value for the entire


Although RootsWeb initially missed an opportunity to host the

project, we got a second opportunity later, when the ISP hosting

USGenWeb had difficulties supporting it. We currently serve not

only the, .net, and .com domains, but also the

homepages for about 40 of the state pages, and thousands of

county homepages. We also provide a home for both the Census

Project and the Tombstone Transcription Project. We host

thousands of mailing lists for USGenWeb counties and states, and

thousands of query boards using the new GenConnect system. There

are 750 MB of material in the USGenWeb archives. It's been wild,

it's been fun, it's been challenging (understatement), but it's

been rewarding and satisfying to see the community working

together, to support the RootsWeb server, and to provide

resources, both through RootsWeb and the mailing lists, and

through USGenWeb and its archives. I think this is the start of a

beautiful friendship.

Reply-To: "Family History" < >

From: "Family History" < >Add to Address Book

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 13:39:50 -0000

Subject: [CRYAN-L] Meaning of LDS


Hi to all especially Roger,

You ask the meaning of LDS, it stands for Latter Day Saints or more

fullyThe Church of Jesus Christ and the Latter Day Saints frequently called

TheMormans. They have collected or photographs huge numbers of genealogical

records throughout the world. Some are on fiche and some on film. There

is ahuge centre for genealogy in Salt Lake City, their headquarters and a

network of Family History Centres, known as FHCs, throughout the world

which has access to these resources. These FHCs are open to the public

butfor most you have to book in advance and priority is given to church

members. They are very kind and helpful to newcomers and know a lot

aboutresearch, so it is worth making contact. Addresses can be found on the

internet or in a telephone book or white pages.

I hope that this is helpful, Eve


==== CRYAN Mailing List ====

Check out Ireland's National Archives:


Reply-To: "Family History" < >

From: "Family History" < >Add to Address Book

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 13:48:56 -0000

Subject: [CRYAN-L] New entry for the CRYAN roll of honour


Hi All,

Sadly, my mother Aileen CRYAN died last night, she slipped quietly awaywithher family around her, after 86 years.Please pray for her and for usall.I shall be absent from the list for a time while making the finalarrangements. But I hope that you will all keep the list active and Ieagerly await a collection of all the mails later.Until again later, Eve



==== CRYAN Mailing List ====

Have you come across a Craine while doing Creahan research? Post it



Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 08:58:01 -0500 (EST)

From: simone samuel <>Add to Address Book

Subject: Re: [CRYAN-L] New entry for the CRYAN roll of honour


Dear Eve,

I'm sorry to hear about your mother's death. I'll pray for her and

yourfamily.Sincerely,Theresa Mary


From: Fatarm@aol.comAdd to Address Book

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 10:41:24 EST

Subject: [CRYAN-L] Mary Cryan


Hello Leslie and all:

Do you have any information on a Mary Cryan abt. 1900-1960? She

married aDaniel Roy McCarthy from Minnesota and settled in New York State -

QueensCounty.Can you help me with your list?

Thank you.Mark


From: Fatarm@aol.comAdd to Address Book

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 10:51:56 EST

Subject: [CRYAN-L] 1749 Elphin Diocese


Once again, clues from Caoimhghin ....

(Census) 1749 Elphin Diocese

[I believe everyone on the below list was listed as a papist]

Parish Abode Names & Rel Profession

Killummod Carroun Bryan & Honor Crien D

Knockrow James & Honor Crine Smith

Killukin Croghan

Boyle Boyle Conor Crynes Beggar

Shancoe Ballin___ J. O'Cryan Farmer


Ardcarn Ahrefinican D. Cryne DO

Jim [or Sim?] Cryne Farmer

P. Cryne DO


Killcola Batallion Laughlen Cryne Herd


Co. Sligo






Killidoon Corlasheen John Cryan Labourer



Sligo Sligo John Crean & wife Slap Boiler

William Crean & wife Cotter

Lawrence Crean & wife Cotter

Widow Sisly Crean Shopkeeper

Martin Crean & wife Yarn Mer.

Pat Crean & wife Farmer

Dinis Creaghan & wife Labourer

John Creaghan & wife Cotter


[Thanks Kevin! And sorry if I've mangled the reading of your

handwriting ...


==== CRYAN Mailing List ====


From: Fatarm@aol.comAdd to Address Book Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 10:54:55 EST

Subject: [CRYAN-L] Crine burials of Boyle To:

>From Caoimhghin:

Crine Burials of Boyle, Catholic Registry:

Margaret Cryan, d. 1938-01-30 age 35. Address: Grangemore.

John Cryan, Ballinultagh, d. 1855-12-24 age 36.

Paul Cryan, Backlane, d. 1858-09-??, age 76.

Brigid Cryan, Ballinultagh, d. 1852-01-??, age 74.

Briget Cryan, Grallagh, d. 1839-02-12, age 70.

From: "Michael Tobin" <>Add to Address Book Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 10:28:10 PST Subject: [CRYAN-L] LDS info To:

Hello Leslie,

Concerning the information which you have extracted from the LDSrecords

and which you were thinking of emailing to people individually - Ithink

it would be useful to copy the mailing list on such information.I think it will help in that people might spot some similarities with their own research, e.g people's names, places, etc.. One problem might

be that a lot of information will be flowing around. Personally, I'm happier with too much rather than too little information.What do others think? Hopefully the question of privacy of such information isn't an issue. If its in the LDS, is it already public domain, so maybe its not a privacy issue?regardsMichael



From: RuthK3834@aol.comAdd to Address Book Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 23:55:21 EST

Subject: [CRYAN-L] Fwd: ship lists sites To:

Return-Path: <>


Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 11:54:34 -0500

Subject: ship lists sites

Received the following from another list I belong to.


Today's url is a brand new website.

The Emigrant Ship Lists Transcribers Guild


This ambitious project has 200 volunteers transcribing ships lists from

NARAto put online for free.There are presently 75 lists transcribed and many more links with

transcribed lists already online at various genealogy websites which are

being collected and organized on this site.This is a noteworthy list as it brings The Genealogy Community together topromote free and easy access to sources for genealogists. The Genealogy

Help Network

has 'dontated' a link to our transcribed passenger list The" ERIN 1813,

withseveral more not online as yet. Please pass this along to another

mailinglist so that others might learn of this great undertaking!

The Genealogy Help Network

Genealogy Help Network




From: Fatarm@aol.comAdd to Address Book Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 10:11:48 EST

Subject: [CRYAN-L] Crehan To:

Hi. I have just started research on the Crehan side of the family and =

> don't have too much to go on. Maybe someone can help. Here's

what I = > know so far:

> My greatgrandfather, Charles Crehan, is listed on my

grandmother's birth= > certificate. Her name was Marie Elizabeth Crehan born in 1896 in

= > Pittsburgh, PA. Her mother is listed as Sarah, born Oct. 1878,also in

= > Pittsburgh. Sarah's parents according to her death certificateare =

> Robert Press and ?? Smith, both born in Ireland. > I found Sarah's tombstone in Pittsburgh and buried next to her inthe = > same plot is John Freeman listed as her brother. I sent for his

death = > certificate and his parents are listed as Robert Freeman andSusanna = > Smith, both born in Ireland. > I'm led to believe that Susanna Smith and ?? Smith are the sameperson,


From: Fatarm@aol.comAdd to Address Book Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 02:04:41 EST Subject:

[CRYAN-L] Re: Crehan To:

Hi,What cemetery did you search? There are some Crehans in N.S. Catholic

Cemetery in Pittsburgh. My grandfather, John who was married to Alice

Wadlow, both born 1880 or 1881. I know she was born in Pittsburgh, but

have been unable to find out if he was. His father, Michael, was born in

? Ireland and married Margaret Dillon, born in Massachusetts. He was

bornin Oct, 1852 and I have no date for her. Their other children were

William(1877) whose wife, Henrietta Halloran is buried in N.S. Catholic.

Frank(no date), Arthur (1883), Harmar James (1886), Mary (1889). My

father, James Elmer(1908) is buried there. In summary, Michael, John,

Henrietta, and James are all buried in N.S. Catholic. Wm, died in

Seattle. Mary disappeared as did Arthur and Harmar James. That is about

all I have been able to certify. I know that an Andrew Crehan married a

woman named Ellen and they lived in Pittsburgh. I will do some digging

inmy files and think I can come up with more on there family. I went to

school with a guy named Creahan, but never bothered to look for a

connection. Regret that now.Carole Crehan Wagner


From: Fatarm@aol.comAdd to Address Book Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 11:40:35 EST

Subject: [CRYAN-L] Early History of Sligo Crean Family (O'Rorke) part 1 To:

[Passed on by Caoimhghin:]

History of Sligo - O'Rorke (p. 275-277)

Early History of Sligo Crean Family

It is to be regretted that there is no list extant of the Priors of HolyCross, some of whom must have been men worth remembering. In theabsence ofany record, the writer thinks it may be of use to give here, in

chronologicalorder, the names of such Priors as he has come across, with a word ortwo of

biography where he can, leaving to others to add new names, and toenlarge thebiographical notices. The following are the names he has met with: -

1. Manus, son of Baethghalach MacEgan, Prior of Sligo, died, according

to theAnnals of Loch Ce, in 1411. The name of this prior does not occur

either inthe Four Masters or the Hibernia Dominicana.


2. Brian, the son of Dermot McDonogh, as we have seen, was Prior in

1416,when the convent was restored after the burning; His name is given in

the FourMasters, the Annals of Loch Ce, and Hibernia Dominicana.


3. The next prior, we know of is Andrew Crean, or O'Crean, who from

Prior ofSligo, became Bishop of Elphin. He was a native of Sligo, and a member

of themost distinguished family then in the place after that of the

O'Connors. Theyappear to have settled in Sligo towards the close of the fifteenth

century;and the first of this branch of whom we have any record, is Cormac, who

isburied in the beautiful altar tomb which stands in the nave of thechurch, and

which bears a Latin inscription, thus rendered by Mr. Langrishe, the

distinguished architect and antiquary, in the "Kilkenny Journal" of



Hic . jacet . Cormacus. Ocraian .

Et Ehon ac . Nanangasa . uxor.

Eis . an . Do., MCCCCC VI.


Here lieth Cormac O'Craian,

. . . . . . and Nanangasa, his wife,

The year of the Lord, 1506.


Originally of Tirconnell, where Donnell O'Crean, "a rich, humane

merchant,died suddenly while hearing mass in the monastery of Donegal, in 1506",

theO'Creans came, probably in the wake of O'Donnell, to Sligo, where they

devotedthem-selves successfully to mercantile pursuits, as the Annals of the

FourMasters record, under the year 1572, the death of Henry O'Crean, "a

rich andaffluent merchant of Lower Connaught."


It is feared that other members of the family were not always so

honourablyemployed as these merchants, for we find "Bishop Crean, of Sleegaugh,"

grantedin 1547, a fee of 12d, a day for life, by Henry the Eight, which,considering

the date of the gift and the character of the giver, is, to say theleast, a

suspicious transaction; while in 1593, another of the family, JamesO'Crean,appears to have acted as spy for the English authorities against someIrishbishops, including the Primate, Doctor Magauran. If these men were asguiltyas they look, the infamy belongs to themselves, and indeed, [thefamily?]

produced men as honourable and virtuous as any of their day.

[I'll do my best to get part 2 posted soon]