December 1807.  They settled in New Norfolk, Van Dieman's Land and had another

two children.  They did not stay out of trouble however as Thomas was

arrested and was tried in September 1817 for sheep stealing with his eldest son

Thomas junior.  They were sentenced to death but that was commuted to a life sentence

after a petition was sent  to the Lieutenant-Governor on their behalf.  They

were both sent to Newcastle and Thomas senior received his ticket of leave after he was

one of thoseselected to go and retrieve a government boat that had been stolen and

wrecked by runaway convicts.  In later years Thomas had trouble proving that he

had in fact received his ticket of leave as there was some confusion over the various

spelling of his name. Mary was also in trouble - once for being drunk for which she was fined

five shillings and another

case was dismissed. Another two of their sons - James and John - were arrested for stealing

ten pigsand were sentenced to seven years.

The children of Thomas and Mary:- Thomas

James (1798-1848) married Rebecca Cox

Catherine (1802-1833) married Henry Cresswell

John (1804-1857) married Sarah Rowley  (my line)

Michael (1807-1822)

David (1809-1847) married Sarah Morgan

Orison (1811-?)

If anybody could shed some light on this CRAWN/CRAUN etc

family, I would be happy to hear from you.

Wendy  in Queensland, Australia


  From:        Fatarm@aol.comAdd to Address Book

   Date:        Wed, 14 Oct 1998 15:31:06 EDT

I don't know if you've already seen this site, but when I saw it, I

thought ofyou N.Dakota Cryan researchers:

<A HREF="">Genealogy Data</A>


   Date:        Wed, 14 Oct 1998 16:11:47 -0700 (PDT)

  From:        Caoimhghin O Croidheain

        <>Add to Address Book Subject:        [CRYAN-L] lorton estate


The Lorton Papers are in a couple ofold trunks in a back room inRoscommon County Library. They contain family paper seg Lortongenealogies and tenant papers- mainly rent books and leases signed by

tenants. I found a standard lease signed by my greatx2 grandfatherJohn Cryan for 1876 and a full rental history from that date to 1905when he died mainly in the form of entries in large rent books.Access

is no problem - I was left to my own devices for a full day goingthrough the material and allowed to photocopy anything I wanted  - thestaff are great. Its possible that if you wrote to them they might

spend the time going through the stuff for you .....

Caoimhghin O Croidheain


 Reply-To:          "Family History" < >

Date:          Thu, 15 Oct 1998 08:43:35 +0100

  Subject:          [CRYAN-L] Re Lorton papers


Thank you, Caoimhghin, for the information on the Lorton papers. I hadassumed that they were in the National Library as they had a librarymanuscript number or are there others? Perhaps Michael will enjoy

looking atthem, if he can get there sometime, now we know they exist. Can youtell us

where the library is? Is it in Roscommon town itself or is it in Boyleorelsewhere?


==== CRYAN Mailing List ====

Have you come across a Crean while doing Croghan research?  List it



  From:        "Cook, Jonathan A (HUK)" <>Add

Date:        Thu, 15 Oct 1998 03:20:01 -0500

 Subject:        [CRYAN-L] CRYAN IN CO. SLIGO


Can you help?  Regarding any information on Cryan's 1901 or 1911 census

returns.  Irish births and marriages.Any info on a Patrick Cryan-Margaret Walsh (Welsh) marriage between

1900-1920 either in Co. Sligo or Manchester, England?Info on me, my family originated in Co. Sligo probably Keash Parish(Toomoor).  Pat Cryan-Mary Judge (Breheny) in 1840 approx., they had at

least 3 children John, Patrick and Owen.  They emigrated to Glasgow,

Scotland in 1870.Many thanks,Patrick Cryans.



  From: (MS JULIA M CASE)Add to

        Address Book   Date:        Thu, 15 Oct 1998 14:41:36, -0500

 Subject:        RootsWeb Review, Vol. 1, No. 18

ROOTSWEB REVIEW: Genealogical Data Cooperative News

Vol. 1, No. 18, 14 October 1998; Circulation: 219,500+

Copyright (c) 1998 RootsWeb Genealogical Data Cooperative

NEW WEB SITES: Some of these might not yet be accessible. If one

that interests you isn't up yet, please check again in a few days

or a week. <<accountname> (the ~[tilde]

before the name is required) will work for most of the following.

If not, you will find most of them at the USGenWeb Project

<> or the WorldGenWeb Project

<>. For example, to visit the Sri Lanka

site, go to: <>


HUMOR. Thanks to Charles Hansen <>, who

forwarded this list of acronyms posted way back in May on a

Prodigy Classic bulletin board by Melanie Nickel.


ISDN      - It Still Does Nothing

APPLE     - Arrogance Produces Profit-Losing Entity

SCSI      - System Can't See It

DOS       - Defective Operating System

BASIC     - Bill's Attempt to Seize Industry Control

IBM       - I Blame Microsoft

DEC       - Do Expect Cuts

CD-ROM    - Consumer Device, Rendered Obsolete Monthly

OS/2      - Obsolete Soon, Too.

WWW       - World Wide Wait

MACINTOSH - Most Applications Crash; If Not, The Operating

            System Hangs

PENTIUM   - Produces Erroneous Numbers Through Incorrect

            Understanding of Math

COBOL     - Completely Obsolete Business Oriented Language

AMIGA     - A Merely Insignificant Game Addiction

LISP      - Let's Insert Some Parentheses

MIPS      - Meaningless Indication of Processor Speed

WINDOWS   - Will Install Needless Data On Whole System

MICROSOFT - Most Intelligent Customers Realize Our Software 

            Only Fools Teenagers


  From:        Fatarm@aol.comAdd to Address Book

   Date:        Fri, 16 Oct 1998 10:42:14 EDT

 Subject:        [CRYAN-L] Research and web site on searching in

        religious orders

I'm sharing some information below that may not be of interest to many,

butassuming that most of us had Catholic ancestors, it may be of interest


My Cryan ancestor's older sister became a nun (Katherine Cryan), and as

thefollowing helpful advice from another researcher points out, its often

quitepossible to find information on such an ancestor if one knows something

aboutthe order to begin with or a location.  Still, I'd love to hear from

anyoneelse who has traced such an aunt or uncle, and of their experience and


Here's the advice I've received:

<<We successfully located the present mother house for a gggaunt who

was alsoa nun, two of them were nuns, in fact. Knowing the religious order is

thefirst hurdle. We were fortunate in that my grandmother had left notes

withsome family history which mentioned the order the sisters belonged to.

<<We also knew the state in which the sister resided. That helped, too.

Iwould think that if you know the religious order, you can contact them

and askthem for help in locating your ancestor. I've done that with a priest

ancestorand one priest archivist took the time to look up my great-uncle's name

in adirectory of priests from that period and sent me the dates and

parishes whichhe served.

<<The religious order sent me a letter with all known information on

the twonuns who had first gone to the order as orphans in the orphanage run by

theorder and later professed their vows. The information included dates and

places of birth, parents'names, when they entered the orphanage, when

theytook their final vows, their dates of death and where they were buried.

<<If you don't know the order, I would try to find out where and when

theydied (perhaps a death index search) and see if you can find an obituary

whichwould list the religious order.

-Penny B.


A USGENweb page for research into N.American Catholic Genealogy

 <A HREF="">

LocalCatholic Church History and Genealogy R...</A>

Lastly, any of you presently-in-Ireland folks have any advice for

locating apriest/nun in Ireland today?  How about those of you Down Under? Or in

Canada?Have a great weekend all, Leslie


  From:        "Michael Tobin" <>Add to Address

        Book   Date:        Sat, 17 Oct 1998 03:09:13 PDT

 Subject:        [CRYAN-L] partial map of Keash

Hello there,I've temporarily made a piece of the map of Sligo which I spoke about

in an earlier post, available on my Web site

This copy is totally unauthorised of course, but I just might get away with it as I'm not linking it from my Web site, as its only there temporarily, and as its an advertisement for others to buy the whole

map. Its part of the Discovery Series of maps produced by the OrdnanceSurvey of Ireland. The one in question is map number 25. Unfortunately, itdoes not extend as far south as Boyle and hence does not include all of the Keash parish (and doesn't include the townland of Carrowcrory which I

had thought would be on it). I don't have the map for this part, butits number 33 and will be available from the Ordance Survey Office ( ).

These maps cost about £5 each. There are 89 different maps whichbetween them cover the whole country. Not all of the maps in the Discovery Series are available yet, but I'm sure if you email them, you'll find out which ones are not yet available.When I last enquired about availablity of some specific maps, they told

me that map 32 would not be available until November and map 33 until December. From memory, they said that all maps would be available by January, 1999.

RegardsMichaelMichael Tobin


  From:        "Michael Tobin" <>Add to Address

        Book   Date:        Sat, 17 Oct 1998 03:11:54 PDT

 Subject:        [CRYAN-L] Re: The CRYANs of Keash/Kesh/Drumrat

Eve and Kevin

Thanks for all the detail you posted on Keash and Lorton. I hope to go to Boyle at some stage to look at the Lorton papers, but it may not be for a while yet. An elderly relative told me that many Keash farmers

who feared going to the local landlord with the rent, used to ask my gg-grandfather John Cryan to take it to the landlord for them. John had no problem with this, but used to make surethat he always wore his oldest clothes when going - just in case the landlord decided that he should pay more rent! This elderly relative

thought that the landlord's office was in Boyle, so it might well have been Lorton.

Eve, all of that Griffith's information is going to be very useful. Wouldn't it be nice to proceed to link all the Cryans of that area to each other and bring it down to 4 or 5 distinct families. I'd guessthat

many of the 20 or so Cryans listed in Griffiths in the general Keash area were probably part of no more than 4 or 5 extended families when you take account of first and second cousins and all that. If we ever

got to that stage, then by a process of elimination, it might be possible to figure out who was who's ancestor.Given that this area, coupled with Boyle, seems to be the Cryan heartland, this might be useful to many current or future Cryan researchers.I mentioned before that I think that the generation before my

gg-grandfather John Cryan, was Matthew Cryan and Briget Hannon, married in Keash in 1844. I still haven't confirmed this and a cousin of minein Keash feels that it might not be the case. However, I know for a fact

that there was a close Hannon connection with my family prior to my gg-grandfather's generation, so that marriage seems the most likely.One problem is that I haven't yet found the birth record for my gg-grandfather even though the Keash records go back far enough. He was born around 1845. The records started around about that time. I'm considering the possibility that he was registered somewhere else -

maybe in Ballymote or in Boyle. There was a Mathew Cryan in Tonrapona for Griffith's Valuation - I had previously thought it very likely that he was mine. I see from your Griffith's information Eve that there were

2 more Matthew Cryan's in Keash at that time also - something for me to work on.

I located my notes that I mentioned in my last post, that I had made earlier in the year on a trip to Keash. I am currently typing them up, but there is one that you will probably be particularly interested in

Eve [or perhaps you are already aware of it and have discounted it] - a marriage record for Daniel Cryan and Maria Breheny dated 3 February 1842. The witnesses were Patrick Breheny and John Cryan. It does not

indicate what townland they were from. I didn't make any notes of their children - even though I had a lot of time on that particular day to look at the Cryan records, there were so many births there that I only

had time to note the ones that I knew were of my own family. Sometime I hope to go back and complete the task and note the other births. There is also a marraige record for a James Cryan and a Maria Cryan dated 8

February 1844 and the witnesses were John Cryan and Daniel Cryan.Hope this is helpful.



   Date:        Mon, 19 Oct 1998 11:29:44 -0700    To:

  From:        Jean Rice <>Add to Address Book Subject:        Cryan database

Dear Kevin, While I do not have family that I know of named Cryan - my family'ssurnamewas Ford(e)/Ford from Drumshanbo, Co. Leitrim - I must say that I reallyadmire you for setting up your Cryan database.  I purchased an IrishRootsmagazine (1998) second-hand from a lady here in Spokane, Washington,

USA,and read your article.  I think it is a truly wonderful idea!.  Are you aware of any such projects for Forde/Ford?  Would you have atelephone/address CD for that Forde/Ford in Co. Leitrim? 

My mother's maiden name was Sweany, her family in Maryland by the1800s; Ihaven't begun genealogy on her surname.  Possibly, from McSweeny clansinMayo or Donegal. 

My father's Forde/Ford family left Co. Leitrim and settled in Liverpoolbetween 1865 and 1881.  When my father's father, Michael, fell off aladderand broke his neck the family immigrated to the Portland, OR area in

1925via Canada.  Michael was a "slaterer", and I am guessing that that is aperson who puts slate roofs on, do you have any idea?Kevin, please do not think I am trying to use you for information.  I

justwanted, really, to tell you what a service you have provided the Cryanfamilies, and I would be interested in hearing how many of your 650worldwide letters sent a response. 

I have only been on the Internet for a couple months, but I have hadlucknot only finding information on my family surnames but also matchingqueries in various periodicals (mostly non-Internet) with Internet

researchers.  This is my hobby.Could you tell me if "Irish Roots" magazine is still being published?

Areyou aware of a USA distributor?  It is a lovely, informative magazine.I shall probably never see Ireland, but it is in my heart.I have been reading about the terrible potato famine, listening to yourlovely music.  I have read the wonderful new books, Angela's Ashes, byFrank McCourt and Famine Ships by Edward Laxton. 

May those who

love us, love us

And those that

don't love us,

May God turn

their hearts:

And if he doesn't

turn their hearts

May he turn

their ankles

So we will know them

by their limping


Jean Rice

3303 East 15th Avenue

Spokane, WA 99223



 Reply-To:          "Family History" < >Date:          Tue, 20 Oct 1998 01:24:35 +0100

  Subject:          [CRYAN-L] Name variations and more from Boyle          Register      To:          CRYAN-L@rootsweb.comHello everyone,

You have been quiet this weekend so I thought that I would share thiswithyou.I spent a few hours looking at the Boyle RC Parish Records on film theotherday at my local FHC before they closed for two weeks - Ah me!Lack-a-day!As I have mentioned before ,they are in Latin and rather difficult toreadeverything because much of the ink has faded,or the handwriting issmall,very small(I guess paper was expensive and hard to come by) or thehandwriting is just difficult to read with squggles or ambiguous letters

etc. After quite a time reading the names almost aloud I found thatmany ofthe names became familiar but were spelt as heard and when the samename wasrepeated by a different hand the spelling varied but it sounded thesame.Put on an Irish accent and say these out loud, I find there is not much


Galaher         could this be Galagher - fairly obvious





Kocki..........Coghey?  now say

Grehan..Green/Pronounced Gre en, Crehan, Crean/pronounced Cre an, Cryan,

Krine (don't forget the accent)!!  Do you see the similarity.The spelling variations were emphasised when I came across the twofollowingentries :-

2March 1793 (born 27thFeb) Michael Cryan & Bridgit

Dannilan..........Maria/Mary                                         witnesses/godparents James

Dannilan(Kilaraght)& Maria Brennan

23 July 1795           Michael Krine & BrigitDonelan............Winifred

                             witnesses/godparents Martin Cox &Johanna


I think that the parents at these baptisms are one and the same. What

do youthink??

To add to the list that I have given before............


5Feb1793  Patrick Brennan & Cecelia Grehan......... Michael

                w    Michael Grehan & Margaret Bourke

3March 1793 Timothy Higgins & Mary Cregan......Mary

                w Patrick McHugh & Mary Bern

22March 1793  John Green & Mary Farrill..........Elizabeth

                witnesses/godparents abrieviated to w   Elizabeth


13 April1793 Carolo(??) Grahan &Honoria McHugh........Michael

                w Peter McHugh & Bridgit Dyer

14 Aug 1793 Martin Cryan & Mary Mullanny......Winifred

                   w Michael McDermott & Susanna McEtuliff(?)

6Sept 1794 Andrew Maddin & Sara Hana.........Peter

                   w Peter Grehan & Sara Grehan

13 Sept 1794   Patrick Hannon & Bridgit McCox...........Paul

                    w Robert Cryan & Matilda Sythe (?)

...............LESLIEALERT !!!!!!!!!!!!

30 Sept 1794 John Hammon & Eleanora Cryan......Twins Joanna(I think but

could be John)(1) & Richard(2)                     w (1) James Worott(?) & Elizabeth Donovan;(2) PeterMurphy & Anne Lyons

26Dec1794  John Sharkott & Catherine Grehan........Mary

                     w Patrick Brennan & Sarah Grehan

2Feb1795   Patrick Cryan & Catherine Bruen........James

                     w Bridgit Brennan

7 Feb1795   Eugene Grehan & Margaret Connellan.....Eugene

                   John Conlan & Hilary Tyenon  (could this father beEugeneCryan of Feb 1793?) (should Margaret and John have the same surname?)The question marks are how I read the spellings which do not seem quite

right to me.Until again , Eve

16 Sept 1794 Laurence Keogh & Honoria Bridiken (?)...........Honoria

                    w Bernard McHugh & Bridgit Cryan


  From:        Fatarm@aol.comAdd to Address Book

   Date:        Mon, 19 Oct 1998 21:46:13 EDT


 Subject:        All received

Thank you so very much for all the information.  I've just completed my"holiday" - driving about 1900 miles total and visiting all sorts ofrelations.  I feel totally overwhelmed by the piles of mail accumulated

overthe last two weeks (and I'm not even looking in my inbox for emailtonight!).Nonetheless, I'm looking forward to a good read tonight, thanks to you(I'vealready skimmed, now to read).  Please send your snail mail addressagain sothat I may reciprocate with a few poor offerings of my own for yourfiles.By the way, is it alright if I post some/all of the info?  Is that whatyouwere intending, or just into my dbase?  I ask because although muchseems tobe public info, you're the one to have put all the sweat and labor into

accumulating it.Lastly, I'd love to hear of your Grandfather's connection to MichaelCollinsas referenced in The Kerryman's recent article.  I just finishedMacKay'sbiography of Collins not too long ago ... but, as always, only if yourtimepermits.  I can wait!  Leslie


From:        Fatarm@aol.comAdd to Address Book   Date:        Mon, 19 Oct 1998 21:52:38 EDT

 Subject:        [CRYAN-L] Back and swamped

I'm back from my mini-tour (nearly 2000 miles logged in!), but am a bitswamped with the recent postings, updating my database, and some newinfo justreceived.  Plus about 4 people are waiting to find out from me whethertheyhave a tie-in to our surname or database.  Have I mentioned that I'mwell over800 names in the database now and quickly surging towards 1000?  I needtospend some time sorting, proofing, and just plain ole organizing,however, sodon't expect much from me this week.  Just wanted to let any of you who

arewaiting for some change to occur via me that I'll be onto it nowshortly ....


"Family History" < >Add to

Subject:          Re: [CRYAN-L] Back and swamped

    Date:          Tue, 20 Oct 1998 08:56:08 +0100


Welcome back ,Leslie.

I hope you enjoyed your break and are not too tired by all that driving.From here one could get well in to Africa on 2000 miles - wow !It sounds as if you are a standing in for the computor server if you are

swamped with mail. None of the rest of us have received any , whichratherdefeats the point of the list and to say the least is ratherdisappointing.Other lists work on the basis of "post your queries to the list and

reply tothe list" I do not know if others agree?I must admit I do not know how the list works, in that I know that thelistowner monitors all the messages but how, I do not know. Do theyphysically have to send each message on ? Or is it an automaticprocess?  Itseems that it is the former if nothing appears when the listowner isaway .If it is the latter then possibly something is not working if nothingappears.

Anyway, that means a doubly welcome back,for yourself and to geteverythingkick started again !!!   Eve


From:        Fatarm@aol.comAdd to Address Book

   Date:        Tue, 20 Oct 1998 12:58:26 EDT

 Subject:        [CRYAN-L] List administration explained

I guess the reaction to my quickie message last night proves that theyarerarely effective:  no, no!  I'm swamped by the mail from *other* lists! IALWAYS read my Cryan mail first -- it's my husband's loquacious

huguenot andAm. southern roots as well as a few of the Irish lists I'meavesdropping infor info to post here that generate too much mail [if interested, checkoutthe General Ireland or Roscommon lists through rootsweb].  Between themandsome inquiries I sent round to potential subscribers to the list, I'll be busy

for a few days.  You know me, always looking for someone else to come   join  us...  Then add in all the great information shared by the list in the past few weeks, and you can see a great need to update the data files I'm keeping (to help others connect in).  But perhaps it's time to explain how this started.  Literally, I

donated $24 to rootsweb so that I may host two mailing lists and some other perks for a year, and then began the list.  That's all there was to it, and anyone can do  it.  I had already been introduced to Caoimhghin (Kevin), and using his list of researchers with email addresses I contacted many of you to see if

you would be interested in subscribing to a list.  [Subscription, btw, as you probably already know, costs nothing]  And I searched around various genealogy sites and home pages I came across for others who might be interested in sharing research, etc.

 As to "owning" the list, as rootsweb calls it, I think it's a misnomer.  Yes,I am the only one who can get to the list of subscribers, but that's to protect from spammers.  I won't share the list, on my honor, but I'm

sure anyone getting these messages could easily reconstruct the subscriptionlist merely by noting who posts messages.  I'm more of an administrator, because I have no control over what gets posted to this list by any subscriberand yetneed to make sure things are going smoothly.  The messages do not go

through me first, but are automatically sent by the rootsweb server.  A great littleservice, no?  Much better than an email loop where everyone has to keep abreast of changes in email addresses and comings and goings. The only messages I get apart from those sent to the rest of you are (1)subscribe/unsubscribe messages - I send a separate welcome message and try and relay a few of the most recent emails so that newbies can jump right   n; (2) spam detected and not sent on messages; (3) misfires - messages sent to

almost the right place, but due to the fact that many folks type like I do, sometimes  don't quite fit the protocol/address, and rootsweb is smart enough to  send them on to me (I correct or send back to sender with corrections).  I maintain our "taglines" -- those little bits after someone's email (I'm happy to

change any and all, should changes be suggested).  I also receive replies to my individual inquiries as I search the net for others to join us.  Cryan-L is a "closed list", meaning only subscribers to the list can

post to   the list.  Again, this is to prevent spamming.  It's a good thing, too- I've received 6 messages from the rootsweb server since we began saying it   deterred spam.  So spam is certainly trying, but we're fairly well protected.  Anyone can add or delete themselves -- spammers just don't tend to because

it's more trouble and time than is profitable, lucky for us!  The only true administrative "power" I have is the ability to prevent an individual subscription, namely for preventing flamers from clogging up our

mailboxes with their nonsense [I would first unsubscribe them then prevent theirresubscribing].  I have never used this and don't intend to unless a sizeable portion of the subscribers request it.  I'm one of those computer geeks who find censorship rather abhorrent, nor do I see our family group as soexclusive (you should see what I'm dealing with to have my husband's relationship to the Clan Scott verified!!) as to deny even remotely possible relationships.

So enjoy the list.  If anyone disagrees with the format of the list, please complain.  But content is not my fault, other than my own postings  ;) As to the volume, the last few weeks have seen more volume than

probably the previous month.  From newbie subscribers I've detected a lot of enthusiasm to finally have found a forum to try out their research and to read of  others' with a similar bent.  I'm sorry if it's harder on the folks who've been doing this a long time, but I think many of us newbies are catching up quickly,

thanks to your advice. Lastly, sorry for being so windy -- Leslie



Date:        Tue, 20 Oct 1998 09:58:27 -0700 (PDT)

  From:        Caoimhghin O Croidheain <>Add to

        Address Book Subject:

        [CRYAN-L] cryan genealogies

hiThis is an unfinished list of cryan genealogies



J.G. Cryan,14 Shellmoor Avenue,Patchway,Bristol BS12 6AD (6-1-97)

Andrew Cryan (Cork, b.c1850) m. Elizabeth Lunniss (London).

Children - Arthur, Thomas (2 daughters -never married) and Harry (3

sons, 2 survive-author and brother in Canada)


Adele Cryan,142 Woodland Drive,North Anston,Nr.Sheffield,S.Yorkshire

S31 7JT

Ggfather Patrick Cryan(b.1880 Sligo>England) m. Bertha Fisher (7


Mary Cryan (sibling of Patrick, Sligo>US>England) m. Brian Horan.

Maggie Cryan(sibling of Patrick, Sligo,Caracurieor Caracrurie,) m.

O'Connor (lived in Ballina fad)


Thomas W. Cryan,66 Runyonrd.,Clifton,New Jersey 07013-2710, USA

Martin Cryan(Carrowreagh)m.Mary Corcoran(Seafin,Cloonloo, Boyle)

Son - Thomas William Cryan (b.12-1-89, Keash, Ballymote.>USA c.1917)


  From:        Fatarm@aol.comAdd to Address Book

   Date:        Tue, 20 Oct 1998 13:20:29 EDT


 Subject:        Re: Re: All received

Caoimhghin, you really are great to share all the info.  Give me a few days to start posting it, however, because I've already lost another day dealing with Eve's email to the list.  Oy - I hate misunderstandings.  She posts wonderful things to the list, but she really doesn't seem to like me!  Oh well - it'll probably turn out that we're second cousins or something.  Maybe that's what I'll wish upon her -- it'd serve her right.

I'm the one with the Robert, so thanks.  His dates are funky to fit with my Robert, but there were all sorts of Roberts in the papers you sent.  I'll start to sort it out later.  I'm likely to move in the next 3 months,

and am avoiding the FHCs until I've got a more permanent address/city.  I'll keep myself busy with the list until then.  I'll quick look through old email for 11-13th Oct.  No, I don't save all -- I  often just separately record names, dates, locations etc. w/ researcher's info.  I need a new print driver so I only print when I visit my parents, like on this last trip.  So some stuff I save to print, others are justravaged for what I want.  It'd be neat to do something with all this someday, but don't have time to even think that all the way through just now.  I'm going to put together a little something for my grandmom for Xmas, but haven't gotten

started.  I'm about to enter my post-Halloween panic, to which will be added the bonus of house hunting (with any luck) this year.  But I'mblathering now,  so I'll let you go - Leslie


  From:        Fatarm@aol.comAdd to Address Book

   Date:        Tue, 20 Oct 1998 13:24:11 EDT


 Subject:        Collins


P.S.  The MacKay book briefly touched the London period of Collinslife, butmostly to talk about his drinking and then sobering and getting caughtup inthe Gaelic move.  Unless of course you are referring to the treatynegotiationperiod, in which time Collins hung out with a more British crowd.  My

readinglist is thick just now -- am reading a collection of essays about IrishNationalism c. 1989 (deals a bit with language and folklore, too,actually --I'll send the full title and all later in case you're interested) and

CharlesStuart's Blacklist Section H.  But am looking forward to your posting onbooks, thanks.

From:        Fatarm@aol.comAdd to Address Book

   Date:        Tue, 20 Oct 1998 13:25:40 EDT


 Subject:        Fwd: Celtic Genealogy Screen Saver, Links, Cregan

                   Attachment: Forwarded Message

  From:    To:

 Subject:        Celtic Genealogy Screen Saver, Links, Cregan

   Date:        Tue, 13 Oct 1998 15:35:35 EDT

Yes, it's true, you can get your own personal O'Crean screen saver

through thesite:  They also seemto have

their favorite Link to Links type page.  Below is the hotlink (I got onemessage from a subscriber saying they got nonsense instead of a hotlinkwhensent through rootsweb, so I'm going to put them at the bottom of my

emailsfrom now on).The second link I have for you is regarding the Irish Genealogical

Society,International.  It connects through rootsweb, but don't be surprised to

findit linking you all over the web:, the hotlink is below.  Is anyone subscribed to this list amember?  Iask because I saw a Crean, a Cryan and a Cregan on one of their lists of

surname the IGSI members are interested in.  I'd love to email members3307,3851, 2726 and 1960 just to let them know our mailing list exists, incasethey'd be interested.

Check out for information on a Creganresearcher.  I've just sent off an email to invite Mr. Cregan to joinus, butin the meantime, his page is interesting.Lastly, and I'm still not sure of how this site is organized (but Ihave toget offline now), See, for a fewscatteredpostings about  Creaghan, Creighan, Creehan, Creenan, Crehan.  Thismight justbe what it's titled, "Genealogy Notes".




<A HREF="">Irish Genealogy on the Web by



<A HREF="">About Michael W. Cregan


<A HREF="">Genealogy Notes of



Go Raith Maith Agat - - "Thank You" -- for all the really great postsof late.Leslie

P.S.  I lifted the gaelic thank you -- it'd serve me right if it saidsomething about the sayer!, so if I've gotten it wrong, let me know....

From: (Lyle Staehnke)

   Date:        Fri, 9 Oct 1998 09:49:03 -0700 (PDT)

 Subject:        Fwd: RE: [CRYAN-L]


Recent letter I sent to A cousin in Austin Texas..And thank`s to every

one for the effort put forth to keep us Cryan`s interested and active in

our reearch!!

From: (Lyle Staehnke)

Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 19:44:00 -0700 (PDT)

To: Harvey.Wohlwend@SEMATECH.Org

Subject: RE: [CRYAN-L]



 =A0=A0=A0=A0First of all please ask any question you want to,I am veryglad to find someone who is as interested in the Cryan`s family as Iam!! I`m retired so send as many e-mail`s and question`s as you

like,,the more the better.. I had thought you had already read my webpage. Any way here is the url  By my reconing Danialhad 14 children by two wives (Margaret McDonagh and Mary Moran) I`vefound his name to be Danial by many record`s.One way was in LidgerwoodN.Dak. I went to the Parish Priest a couple year`s ago when I was backthere and asked what records they had on the Cryan`s.They had ThomasCryan`s record of him dying august 4 1917,and listed his dad a DanialCryan and mother as Mary "Moran" Cryan..Also I have it recorded on thecensus of Morrisburg Canada.1851-1861-1871 and 1881 in Stormontcounty,Ontario Canada. Michael Cryan was a brother toAustin,Ellen,James, Thomas,Lucy and Joseph Cryan, Plus half brother toseven older sibling`s. =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0I am just guessing he left Ireland in 1830,because MariaCryan was born in 1831 in Morrisburg Canada and he had two childrenbefore born in Ireland,Martin born in 1823 and John whose birthdate Idon`t know.. So it`s just a guess.. Keep asking question`s and the morethe better, If you could see all the Photo copie`s I have it would bemuch easier to grasp,,Lyle


From:        Fatarm@aol.comAdd to Address Book   Date:        Tue, 20 Oct 1998 13:29:14 EDT    To: Subject:        Fwd: [CRYAN-L] ThomasFrom:


  "Wendy Evans" <>

   Date:        Sat, 10 Oct 98 18:00:57 PDT Subject:        [CRYAN-L] Thomas        CRAWN/CRAUN/CRAHAN/CROUGHAN

    To:        CRYAN-L@rootsweb.comHello to everyone,I thought that it was time that I posted my family details.  I havebeen told that my ancestor had eleven variations on the spellingof his name during his lifetime..  I have listed just a few of them.I am looking for information on my 5xgreat grandfather Thomas

CRAWN/CRAUN/CRAHAN/CROUGHAN (among other variationsof the name).  He was tried at Dublin in December 1791 and sentencedto 7 years transportation.  He arrived aboard the "Boddington" in NewSouth Wales where he served most of his sentence and was sent toNorfolk Island aboard the "Marquis Cornwallis" in May 1796.  While onNorfolk Island he married Mary MONKS who also had been tried in Dublinand sentenced to transportation and arrived in New South Wales aboardthe"Marquis Cornwallis".  She only stayed in NSW a few days and was sent toNorfolk Island aboard the "Radiance".Thomas and Mary and five children were sent to Van Dieman's Land(Tasmania)when the first convict settlement on Norfolk Island was disbanded inDecember1807.  They settled in New Norfolk, Van Dieman's Land and had anothertwochildren.  They did not stay out of trouble however as Thomas wasarrestedand was tried in September 1817 for sheep stealing with his eldest sonThomasjunior.They were sentenced to death but that was commuted to a life sentenceafter apetition was sent  to the Lieutenant-Governor on their behalf.  They

were bothsent toNewcastle and Thomas senior received his ticket of leave after he wasone ofthoseselected to go and retrieve a government boat that had been stolen andwreckedbyrunaway convicts.  In later years Thomas had trouble proving that hehad infact receivedhis ticket of leave as there was some confusion over the variousspelling ofhis name.Mary was also in trouble - once for being drunk for which she was finedfive

shillingsand another time she was arrested for stealing a loin of pork but thiscasewas dismissed.

Another two of their sons - James and John - were arrested for stealingtenpigsand were sentenced to seven years.The children of Thomas and Mary:-ThomasJames (1798-1848) married Rebecca CoxCatherine (1802-1833) married Henry CresswellJohn (1804-1857) married Sarah Rowley  (my line)Michael (1807-1822)David (1809-1847) married Sarah MorganOrison (1811-?)If anybody could shed some light on this CRAWN/CRAUN etcfamily, I would be happy to hear from you.

Wendyin Queensland,


From: (Lyle Staehnke)Add to Address Book   Date:        Tue, 20 Oct 1998 11:37:44 -0700 (PDT)    To: Subject:        RE:List Oct.10.11,12

Kevin let me know if no one has forwarded these message`s.I still have

them and will send them if you like..


Reply-To:          "Family History" < >    From:          "Family History" < >Add to Address Book    Date:          Wed, 21 Oct 1998 08:48:41 +0100

  Subject:          [CRYAN-L] CRYAN genealogies      To:

Thank you for the list of genealogies. That adds another 6 to those weknowcame from the Keash parish. Some of these I can pick out from the Irishindexes and be more precise than just the Boyle registration districtwithout having to obtain the certificate.There is even one from Caracrurie - could that by any chance beCarrowcrory?Thanks again, Caoimghin, regards Eve



 Reply-To:          "Family History" < >    From:          "Family History" < >Add to Address Book    Date:          Wed, 21 Oct 1998 10:01:52 +0100

  Subject:          [CRYAN-L] Irish History book      To:

Hello again,I just had to pass on this which ,having seen in a family historylibrary,have found in a local bookshop.Atlas of Irish History, ed by Sean Duffy, published by Gill andMacmillanprice £9.99 in UK probably less than $20 in USA      ISBN 0 7171 2479 7It is ideal for those wanting a comprehensive but visual history ofIrelandas a whole. There is very little about individual places. As an atlasit isfull of maps rater than explanations from very early times, campaigns,movements of people, tribal areas and much more. I am just going topick itup so will say more when I have read some of it (yes, there is also anarrative).

There is also a great tome , which I would have liked but postage pluscostwould be prohibitive for one book. You may get it more easily in theUSA ormay find it in a library.Irish Records - Sources for Family History and Local History - JamesRyanpublished by Ancestry Publishing PO box 476 Salt Lake City, UT 84110ISBN  0 916489 22 1or for those in Ireland from Flyleaf Press , 4 Spencer Villas,Glenageary,Co Dublin. phone 0-806228cost about $50 or at least £20 - not sure of current prices.Until again, take care everyone Eve

From:             "Anthony & Jill Cryan" <>Add to             Address Book

 Organization:             The Adjutant's Desk       Date:             Wed, 21 Oct 1998 21:12:45 +1000

    Reply-to:        Subject:             [CRYAN-L] [Repost] Hello and Cryans in the American             Civil War..         To:   

I sent the following when the list first started, so I thought I'd sendit again.....TC------- Forwarded Message Follows -------Date sent:              Fri, 21 Aug 1998 23:00:17 +1000

Hi FolksTony Cryan from Australia here - I'm still pottering around a bit asconcerns "The Family Tree"  so please excuse....I've gone back as far as my GGG Domnick (m. Catherine Cauly (Cawley <sp>)) - he was a Farmer from Gurteen Sligo I believe. I am very eager to find out more about Domnick, as I only know for

sure  that he had a son and daughter (Thomas  <bn Gurteen, Sligo Ire 1854>  arr  Aust approx 1877 - I can trace from Thomas onwards) and Sarah - bn 24 March 1866 Sligo, Gurteen District). Assistance from Eve < >  at this time causes me to surmise  that  the elusive GGG "Domnick" appears

to be  one that died in 1892 aged 90 at  Boyle (no. 4.83) thereby born 1802 - but I have not confirmed this.

Has any one else found a Domnick in their travels ?Now to the ACW:

I have subscribed to the ACW  database on the Web and fed in Cryan - 4 came up on the Union army: Patrick   - A Co MA 9th Infantry - (1862 to 1863) Thomas and Michael - M Co RI  3rd Heavy Artillery (1862 to 1865)  I was already aware of (thanks to those who helped - I'm not at my files so please forgive me for not

mentioning you directly) - John - enlisted C CoNJ 11th Infantry (Deserted enroute to Regt June 1864). A little 

more info was contained (County, Company, Ranks, Transfers etc) with each. With the Confederate  parameter - the result amazed me with a return of a Donnick Cryan who joined  the 49th GA Infantry, transferred to the gunboat CSS Chicora and then was a  POW (a side note indicates the entry could be Donnick or Dominick..... )Has any one traced these folk back to Ireland ?

I'm eager to find out if any of the ACW Cryan's are related to "my"Domnick,  though without a full list of his (Dom from Sligo) children,siblings or parents it's difficult. (Actually I would be interested inanymaterial concerning Cryans in Military History - in particular prior to1900).ThanksTC



From:        Fatarm@aol.comAdd to Address Book   Date:

        Wed, 21 Oct 1998 21:24:22 EDT Subject:        [CRYAN-L] Cryan Mailing List Archive


For those with an interest to see what was discussed before theysubscribed,who have had a computer crash, or just wish to go back and re-livedelightfulO'Crean postings come some rainy day, please know that there is a(somewhat) searchable archive available.  It's limited in power and it didn'tbegin untilwe'd sent maybe 10 or so messages, but you can check it out at the belowhotlink or the following:, our words have been recorded -- it's a little complicated tofollow alongthe retrieval instructions, but it can be done.  I was able to pull up

message20, but nothing under message #10, so the archive must have kicked insometimebetween (it's just as well -- the first few messages were just me and mybrother testing out the list to make sure it worked).  And since theCryanswere the next people on the list, and they've re-posted in the pastmonth Ibelieve, basically all the info previously shared through the list isaccessible.  I haven't tried out the search feature -- if someone does,pleaselet me know if you have success or failure.Caoimhghin O Croidhein (Kevin Cryan) has kindly sent me some things togetposted to the list as time allows.  I'm going to start tonight, so look

forsome of these items.  They don't just pertain to Cryans, as Caoimhghinis avery thorough researcher and has picked up a little here and there thatshouldplease everyone on the list.   So stay tuned for more excitement ....Leslie


<A HREF="">Search

Features Available for a RootsWeb MailinÉ</A>



From:        Fatarm@aol.comAdd to Address Book   Date:        Wed, 21 Oct 1998 21:24:56 EDT

 Subject:        [CRYAN-L] Cryan Mailing List Archive    To:

From:        Fatarm@aol.comAdd to Address Book   Date:        Wed, 21 Oct 1998 21:53:32 EDT

 Subject:        [CRYAN-L] The Kerryman: Review of 1911 Controversy        Involving William Cryan, Caoimhghin's Granddad    To:



Caoimhghin kindly sent a copy of a recent (Friday, Sept 25, 1998)articlepublished in The Kerryman, and here it is:

When Saving a Drowning Man Leads to Controversy:

A TALE of heroism, deceit and slander involving the rescue of adrowningman at Cahersiveen unfolded in the pages of The Kerryman 87 years ago.   The Kerryman's letters page was ablaze with fiery comments which noeditorwould allow to be published today.   At the centre of the story was William Cryan, a young law clerk wholivedin Cahersiveen, and who later became an intimate friend of MichaelCollins.   While preparing for a swim at Cobbler's Rock at Cahersiveen inSeptember1911, he noticed a man in distress in the river and together withanother man,swam to his rescue.   When an article in The Kerryman described the dramatic rescue, ananonymousperson wrote in to complain that a certain Daniel Mangan had not been

creditedfor his part in the rescue.   Letters began to flock in to The Kerryman for and against Mangan,

and theeditor finally had to declare the matter was closed.   The original article said: "A young man named Timothy Morley enteredthewater, and swimming out at a distance became exhausted, and when about

toretreat was unable to combat with the strong current prevailing at thetime."   William Cryan and Patrick Colbert heard Morley's cries for help. "They atonce divested themselves of their clothing and plunging into the waterswamtowards the drowning man.  Morley was unconscious at this stage, andCryanseized him by the hand, it being the only part of his body then abovethewater."   The rescuers brought Morley back to the shore.  It is at this stagethatDaniel Mangan and 'M Walsh, Draper' enter the story.   "When they reached the shore they appeared to be in an exhaustedcondition.With the help of Messrs D Mangan and M Walsh the rescued man was takenfromthe water to the bank in a very critical condition, but after a littlewhileregained consciousness.   "Great credit is due to Messrs Wm Cryan and Patrick Colbert, whoplayedsuch a heroic part in the rescuing of this unfortunate man, who nodoubt wouldhave lost his life were it not for them.   "It is to be hoped that the matter will be brought under the noticeof theRoyal Humane Society and that it will deserve the recognition of theCarnegieHero Fund."   The next week a letter appeared from 'A Looker On' claiming thearticle wasinaccurate and garbled, calling William Cryan's heroism into question,andstating that Daniel Mangan had helped William Cryan in the rescue'without amoment's hesitation'.   Now at this stage it would be fair to assume that the anonymouswriter wasnone other than Daniel Mangan himself, particularly when the letterstatedthat: "It would be quite out of place for the Royal Humane Society ortheCarnegie Hero Fund to heed or take any interest whatsoever in thematter."Could Daniel Mangan have been jealous of William Cryan?   The next week a letter then arrived from M Walsh, Draper, claimingthatMangan had been less than willing to help.  "Mr D C Mangan refused togo tothe rescue, " he stated.   The 'Looker On' took offence and wrote back, calling M Walsh'sintelligenceinto account and saying 'the writer must have been suffering from anightmare'.  The 'Looker On' said Mangan had been 'falsely accused ofcowardice'.   However, it seems that the 'Looker On' was not, after all, DanielMangan,as the following week a letter arrived from Mangan himself.  He was notparticularly pleased at the allegations being made against him.   "Whilst I do not crave for honour, yet I feel it only fair to saythat Mr.Walsh who professes to be a gentleman, should not sign lying statementsconcocted by somebody else for publication, Mangan wrote.  "I knows aswell as

I do that I did not refuse to render assistance in every way possible."   But that wasn't the end of the matter.  M Walsh wrote a final letterto TheKerryman, in which said Daniel Mangan definitely refused to help.  "He

refusedand said 'What a nice thing I would do; he might drown me,' Walsh wrote.   A note from the editor put an end to the matter.  "Thiscorrespondence isnow closed.-Ed.K."   In the end, William Cryan did receive a certificate saying heassisted insaving a life.  Cryan had been born in Mid[blur]ton, Co. Cork in 1891,

andcame to Cahersiveen when he was 17.  He was later attached to theMarconiCompany in the early days of wireless telegraphy and was at sea for manyyears.  He became a member of the Army Signal Corps when the Irish Armywasformed.----------Caoimhghin, does your family still have the certificate?  What a greatstory.

Did you granddad ever discuss it?


From:        Fatarm@aol.comAdd to Address Book   Date:        Wed, 21 Oct 1998 22:56:07 EDT

 Subject:        [CRYAN-L] Forgive this 'I-forget-who-asked' posting    To:

but someone mentioned to me that they were interested in the IrelandBookdiscussion group (was it you, Pat in Boston?).  Anyways, someone elseon thelist may be interested as well.  Here's the heading:  Same as Cryan-L, you just email with the word

"subscribe" as the sole message content.


From:        Fatarm@aol.comAdd to Address Book   Date:        Wed, 21 Oct 1998 23:17:19 EDT Subject: CRYAN-L] Irish Times, "Where's That" Article 1995    To:

This is for all of us, again courtesy of Caoimhghin.  It fits perfectlywithour ongoing research into the variations of O'Crean etc. and (withtongue incheek) the family motto.  Enjoy (and thank Kevin for the info!):

[reproducedin full]

Where's ThatIrish Times, p. 23, 29-5-1995

Ballinvilla 1087

   It is related that when a priest asked a child if she wouldrecognise Jesusif she met him on the road she readily replied that she would.  'Andhow wouldshe recognise Him?' the priest curiously enquired. 'He would,' repliedthechild, 'be wearing His heart on His shirt!'  We cannot say what it wasaboutthe first person to be given the surname 'O Croidheain' (from croi,heart).Was it his Christ-like sanctity? Or was he a hearty person - 'juinecrofuil',or was he the treasure of someone's heart, as in 'a stor mo chroi'?'Nil fhiosagainn.'  O Croidheain formed a minor sept of the 'Cinel Eoghain' in Co.Donegal, with a branch in Co. Sligo.  Persons named (O) Crean, (O)Creane,Creaghan, Crehan, (O) Cryan, Cryans, Cregan or Creegan, may beoriginally 'O

Croidhein' -- but then again they may not.  This surname usually tookthe formCrehan in Co.s Clare and Galway, with Crean, Grean and even Graham inCo.Mayo.  Crean today is mostly found in Munster, though in most cases inCosKerry and Cork it may more correctly be from 'O Corraidhin', usuallyanglicised Curreen.  A further complication was that 'O Corrain',usuallyanglicised Curran, was sometimes changed to Crean.  Cregan and Creeganderivefrom 'O Croidheagain', a different surname.   'Annala Rioghachta Eireann'/Annals of the Four Masters notes thedeaths ofDonnell O Craidhin and Henry O Craidhin in 1506 and 1572 respectively. TheAnnals provide the unusual information regarding the occupations ofthese two.The former was 'a pious and conscientious merchant, died while hearingMass inDonegal', and the latter was 'a rich and affluent merchant of LowerConnaught'.  A Fiant of Edward VI of 1546 notes the grant to BaptistCrean ofSlegaugh ('Sligeach', Sligo), of a fee of 12d sterling a day for life.Elizabeth Fiants list pardons to Donald sallagh O Crahyn of Balyglyhan,CoLimerick in 1576; to William O Croyne of Cloynecasleyne, Co Galway in

1585; toAndrew and John O Crean, gentlemen of Ormond and Connaught in 1585; toWalterO Crean of Sligo in the same year; to Richard O Creayn of Sligo in1593; toTeig and Shane O Crean of Keanturke in 1601, and to Walter O Creane --apparently of Donegal, in 1602/3.  Keanturke, not Kinturk, namestownlands inCos Clare, Monaghan, Tyrone and in the Co Galway parish of Ballyhean. Thislatter we take was the home of Teig and Shane in 1601.   The 1659 Census lists John Craine among the Tituladoes of Shandon intheLiberties of Cork city, and Symon Crane was a Co Meath Commissioner ofthe1661 Poll-Money Ordinance.  This pair however may have borne the Englishsurname Crane which belongs to the nickname category of surnames.

These are'descriptive of an ancestor's face, figure, temper, morals, taste,clothes andthe rest'.  The ancestor of the English Cranes was 'skinny andlonglegged likea crane'.  All things considered it would not be difficult to choosethe Irishsurname.   Among the 1654-58 transplanters from other counties to the Co Mayobarony

of Costello, were Andrew and Agnes Crean, Annagh, Co Sligo, sent to CoMayo'sparish of Annagh where they were to receive 600 acres.  Julian Crean,also ofCo Sligo's Annagh, was to receive 634 acres in the same place. Additionallyhe was to get 200 acres in the Co Galway parish of Dunmore.  John Creanof CoSligo, was to get 100 acres in the Co Galway parish of Belclare. Taylor &Skinners 1778 'Maps of the Roads of Ireland' shows Crean Esq., atBallybeg inthe Co Mayo parish of Annagh.  The 1814 Directory Lists Mr. StephenCrain atCartera, Ballinasloe, and Joseph Crane, Esq., Ballinvilla, both in CoGalway.BALLINVILLA, Co Mayo, the 1814 residence of the above Joseph Crain,Esq., wasin 1876 the home of A L Crean, where he had 731 acres.  In the samecountyThomas Crean, Ballina, had a modest two acres.  'OnomasticonGoedelicum' givesBallinvilla in the Co Roscommon parish of Killumod as deriving from'Baile anBhealaigh', 'the town of the way or pass.'___________

note: for some reason either specific to AOL or the web in generalaccentsdon't travel well with my emails (think of my surname, Poche', andyou'llrealize I have reason to know), so please forgive my omittance of the

propergaelic spellings.   No author is listed, and I wish I knew more about who composed thisdescription.  It doesn't totally jive with MacLysaght, does it?


From: (MS JULIA M CASE)Add to Address        Book   Date:        Wed, 21 Oct 1998 21:52:10, -0500 Subject:        RootsWeb Review, Vol. 1, No. 19    To:





            by Karen Isaacson and Brian Leverich


Walt Scott commented in a recent letter to the editors: "When onesees Frazier Park as an address -- shake, rattle, and roll comesto mind and skiing some times of the year. . . I was surprised tofind a 'World Class' genealogy site where you . . . reside."Walt knows that Frazier Park, California, is a small town aboutan hour north of Los Angeles near Interstate 5, but many of ourreaders might not. And actually, RootsWeb isn't in Frazier Parkat all, it's in an outlying community (suburb would sound sillyin this context) called Pine Mountain Club about 20 miles west,tucked into the mountains.  But the post office thinks we're inFrazier Park, so that's our address. (To further confound things,the telephone company thinks we're in Lebec. Go figure.)


So, what's RootsWeb doing in the mountains of SouthernCalifornia, 20 miles west of a place most folk have never heardabout? And what's Pine Mountain Club like, anyhow?The second question is easier, and partially answers the first.Sometimes a picture is worth 1,000 words (or so the old clichegoes). If you can, take a look at:



The town is 5,000 feet (and more) above sea level. We have trees(a bit of a novelty in Southern California) and snow (ditto). Forthis homesick transplantee from Olympia, Washington (hi, Mom!, hiDad!), with a tele-commutable job in the Los Angeles area, thetrees and fresh air and the four seasons made Pine Mountain Clubsound like a little bit of heaven. Up we came.Brian says this is boring. He's probably right. I feel happy justlooking at the trees and birds and, well, just being here. Butmaybe you'd have to be here to appreciate that. (Some of youare.) So let's let Brian have the floor: "Karen left out all thesatisfaction of the pioneering lifestyle, chasing bears out ofthe dumpsters, 'coons out of the dog food, coyotes out of thebird food (it's a long story), and mice out of everything.Roughing it with no Chinese restaurant within 60 miles. Four-wheel-driving it in and out as our only road slipped down themountain or had the mountain fall on it."And the joys of trying to keep a major Internet site running inthis environment, which range from the sublime (sleeping-baggingit in a freezing-cold NOC to keep the generator fueled) to theridiculous (having our data lines cross-wired into the onlybakery within an hour's drive). At least you could get the only56.6Kb donuts in the world right here at Pine Mountain Club."Anyhow, Brian and I aren't the only techno-refugees up here onthe hill. An interesting place like this, not that far from LosAngeles, has brought together a number of kindred spirits, two ofwhom, Scott and Barbara Rosen, founded Frazier Mountain InternetService (FMIS). RootsWeb's first access to the Internet was aserver co-located in the FMIS Network Operations Center (NOC). Asyou might guess from some of the more recent messages in theRootsWeb Review, we now have servers in other NOCs, some as faraway as the new one in Anaheim. They probably don't have to worryabout bears in their garbage cans down there.


                    *    *    *    *    *


GEEK SPEAK. Thanks to Dale ("Doc") Schneider for transmitting the

following item, which was written by and is published with the

permission of Leigh Compton <>.


                         *    *    *


CGI SCRIPTS -- Web servers easily deliver prepared pages andgraphics on demand, but with HTML documents, the server can onlyprovide those documents which have been specifically prepared bythe webmaster and placed on the server. Webmasters need a way tohave HTML pages created dynamically, based upon input supplied bythe user at the browser. That's the role of CGI scripts. 

CGI stands for Common Gateway Interface, which provides anenvironment for executing programs on the Web server to processthe input data and create a Web page in response. CGI scripts canbe written in just about any programming language, but the mostpopular are Perl, C, C++, and Java.

Common tasks often handled by CGI scripts are bulletin boards,database searches, processing forms, displaying catalog contents,and even shopping carts.


All webmasters at RootsWeb have access to the MailMerge andimagemap programs. The RootsWeb Surname List, GenConnect, SurnameHelper, RootsWeb HelpDesk, and the Mailing List Archive SearchEngine are all CGI-based Web applications.

                    *    *    *    *    *

CONNECTING THROUGH ROOTSWEB: Thanks for sharing your stories.

                        *    *    *

Through my involvement on the Chester County, Pennsylvania,Quaker, and Mahoning County, Ohio lists, and through queries to county Web pages, I've "met" seven cousins and many non-relativeswho have been exceedingly helpful and generous with their ownresearch. With their help I now have substantial information onthree direct lines, one going clear back to the 1400s. The firstcousin contacted me after my initial query about where I mightfind a copy of our family's history and genealogy which wascompiled and published by my ggg-uncle in 1885. This cousin sentme some preliminary information and put me in contact withanother cousin who had the book. That cousin sent me wonderfulinformation about my maternal grandfather's line and gave me apublishing source to get a copy of the book. I ordered copies forseveral family members, and they were presented at a familyreunion this summer, along with a 12-generation family tree Iprinted out from all the data I'd been able to gather. Just sixmonths ago I had no information beyond my grandparents'generation. It was quite a revelation suddenly to learn of ourvery well-documented Quaker roots. I thank the many genealogistswho did primary research and so carefully documented their workand published their findings, and those still at work, sogenerous in sharing their data. There is still a lot for me to

do, but how much fun it is, this addictive research.When I was looking for the location of a church graveyard wheremany of my ancestors rest, several people put me in touch withpeople they knew near that town. I learned that the church roofhad recently blown off in a storm and narrowly missed theheadstones in the graveyard. One of the kind folks who contactedme was a high school teacher who had the summer off and livednear the graveyard. He even offered to drive my elderly familymembers from another county to the site. Talk about nice people!        The most meaningful contact I've made through RootsWeb, besides

that with my cousins, happened [recently] in response to a queryfor information about my mother who died when I was one. Ireceived a response from a woman my own age who had grown up onthe very street where my mother lived. This woman asked hermother if she remembered my family. She not only remembered them

but had known my mother from childhood until her death. She wasable to tell me through her remembrances a bit about what mymother was like as a person. What a precious gift to find someone

who knew a deceased family member so well. Thanks for making

these contacts possible. You've got a faithful subscriber in me.

                                K. Kleeh <>


                    *    *    *    *    *



    by Brian Bonner Mavrogeorge <>


At our BONNER reunion this year I was given the task of producing

a family history for the year 2000 reunion. Of course once the

"volunteer" had been chosen, each cousin had his or her own idea

of what the history should contain. As they described their

visions of our history, they mentioned the photos, videos, audio

tapes, certificates, and other items they had hidden away and

wanted to share. How could we create something that would

encompass all of our "history"? It didn't seem the traditional

printed history would do.


The solution I proposed was to publish our history on a CD using

the same type of technology used for Web sites. This approach

will accommodate all the text we would need for a family history

with the standard journal report and box charts. It lets us

include photos of individuals, events, and places as well as

audio tapes. Various cousins volunteered to scan in photos and

images of Bible pages, graduation certificates, and mementos. The

only software needed to view our family history will be an

Internet browser -- Netscape or Microsoft Internet Explorer.


Several commercial and shareware utilities can generate Web

pages. You can even use Word for Windows to create text in the

special format needed. The latter is a brute-force method, bound

to inspire those with lots of time for typing and tweaking HTML

code. While these products are good for creating Web pages, they

are not really designed for genealogy Web sites. I chose to use

the built-in ability of Ultimate Family Tree (UFT) to create a

complete Web site, since it will automatically incorporate the

genealogy data I have already entered.


Usually you create a Web page, with graphics and images, in

Ultimate Family Tree and then upload it to Palladium's free home

page <>. You

can, however, choose the option to create the pages for your own

site and that is what the CD actually is. It is a representation

on the CD of a Website which is read/viewed by the browser.


When the cousins have scanned in all the images of people,

places, events, and family mementos, in UFT I will link each of

the images to the appropriate person, place, or event. Then when

UFT creates the HTML code, it will automatically include those

images for me. It will create the code in a series of files on my

hard drive. We are also going to include a special "family

gallery" with family images that cousins can view and copy into

their own family history creations.


Once UFT has created the Web site and the gallery is complete, I

will copy the entire file structure onto a CD using a CD burner

and the appropriate CD software (I will use Toast). The CDs can

be easily replicated, and we intend to include a CD in each

invitation to the "Bonner 2000" family reunion. The recipient

will invoke her or his browser program, point it to the index.htm

file on the CD and then explore our history.


Not everything will make the final product. You can transform

videos and films into QuickTime format and "play" them with an

add-on for a browser. But the QuickTime files would be very

large. (By the year 2000, DVD disks may be in wide use and be an

option.) The conversion process also would take considerable

time. I love my cousins dearly, but if I have to choose between

four days of work converting a video tape to QuickTime or four

days in the basement of a courthouse doing research, the

courthouse will win.


For another example of publishing a history on a CD, check out

Ultimate Family Tree's <> Family Tutor

series of genealogy multimedia tutorials. The techniques used for

breaking content into sections, incorporating sound files, and

displaying "moving" images in collages, are easily done in your

own family history CD.


HUMOR. Our thanks to Amy Dean <>, who

sent us this story 18 months ago (23 Apr 1997) with advice she'd

received it from several sources, Bruce Anderson II among them.


                   YEAR 2000 (Y2K) PARABLE 

                submitted by Penny Pennington


There was once a COBOL programmer in the mid to late 1900s. For

the sake of this story, we'll call him Jack. After years of being

taken for granted and treated as a technological dinosaur by all

the UNIX programmers and Client/Server programmers and Web site

developers, Jack was finally getting some respect. He'd become a

private consultant specializing in Year 2000 conversion. He was

working short-term assignments for prestigious companies,

traveling all over the world on different assignments. He was

working 70 and 80 and even 90 hour weeks, but it was worth it.


Several years of this relentless, mind-numbing work had taken its

toll on Jack. He had problems sleeping and began having anxiety

dreams about the year 2000. It had reached a point where even the

thought of the year 2000 made him nearly violent. He must have

suffered some sort of breakdown, because all he could think about

was how he could avoid the year 2000 and all that came with it.


Jack decided to contact a company that specialized in cryogenics.

He made a deal to have himself frozen until March 15, 2000. This

was a very expensive process and totally automated. He was

thrilled. The next thing he would know is he'd wake up in the

year 2000; after the New Year celebrations and computer debacles;

after the leap day. Nothing else to worry about except getting on

with his life.


He was put into his cryogenic receptacle, the technicians set the

revive date, he was given injections to slow his heartbeat to a

bare minimum, and that was that.


The next thing that Jack saw was an enormous and very modern room

filled with excited people. They were all shouting, "I can't

believe it!" and "It's a miracle!" and "He's alive!"  There were

cameras (unlike any he'd ever seen) and equipment that looked

like it came out of a science fiction movie.


Someone who was obviously a spokesperson for the group stepped

forward. Jack couldn't contain his enthusiasm. "It is over?" he

asked. "Is 2000 already here? Are all the millennial parties and

promotions and crises all over and done with?"


The spokesman explained that there had been a problem with the

programming of the timer on Jack's cryogenic receptacle, it

hadn't been year 2000 compliant. It was actually 8,000 years

later, not the year 2000. But the spokesman told Jack that he

shouldn't get excited; someone important wanted to speak to him.


Suddenly, a wall-sized projection screen displayed the image of a

man who looked very much like Bill Gates. This man was Prime

Minister of Earth. He told Jack not to be upset. That this was a

wonderful time to be alive. That there was world peace and no

more starvation. That the space program had been reinstated and

there were colonies on the moon and on Mars. That technology had

advanced to such a degree that everyone had virtual reality

interfaces which allowed them to contact anyone else on the

planet, or to watch any entertainment, or to hear any music

recorded anywhere.


"That sounds terrific," said Jack. "But, I'm curious. Why is

everybody so interested in me?"


"Well," said the Prime Minister, "The year 10,000 is just around

the corner, and it says in your files that you know COBOL."

                    *    *    *    *    *


From:        "Michael Tobin" <>Add to Address Book   Date:        Thu, 22 Oct 1998 05:14:23 PDT Subject:        [CRYAN-L] Wandering around Keash    To:

Hello there,I was up in Co. Sligo at the weekend and visited a 2nd cousin of my mother's who lives in Keash, within sight of the famous caves of Keash. I did not acquire any new information in relation to my research as I have been in touch with him a few times before. However, it was the first time that I had time to see some of the scenery in Keash and it was impressive.Just to set the scene, Keash mountain (known as Keash Corann) and the Bricklieve montains are in the middle of relatively low-lying land and are the highest points for many miles around. We went for a drive through the mountains and the views from the mountain are fantastic. At one point on the mountain, you can see 4 counties  - Donegal, Sligo (of course), Leitrim and Mayo.You can clearly see Knocknarae mountain which is near Strandhill, onthe top of which sits Queen Maeve's grave. Queen Maeve was Queen ofConnacht hundreds of years ago. In the Keash mountains themselves, there are at least 4 similar graves to Queen Maeve's. I don't know who is buried there - but it must be people of significance as each grave is right at the top of a mountain peak. There is a nice lake, Lough Leibhe, buried in a valley in the middle of the mountains.We stopped at the old Toomour church at the foot of the mountain.Legend has it that 4 High-Kings of Ireland are buried here. The church is in ruins and mostly overgrown. The graves are known to locals but are not marked. I don't know if any of you ever heard of Cormac Mac Art, a legendary High-King of Ireland - well, local folklore is that he was reared by wolves in the caves of Keash Corann.A local comittee in Keash are working on a history of the area and

expect to publish it in about 12 months time. When it is available, hopefully I will be able to post details of how to order it here.RegardsMichael


Reply-To:          "Family History" < >    From:          "Family History" < >Add to Address Book    Date:          Thu, 22 Oct 1998 13:39:49 +0100  Subject:

          [CRYAN-L] Re Wandering in Keash      To:

Hi Michael,Thank you so much.It sounds lovely. However well one reads a map on cannotreplace a description. I look foreward to the book, there must be muchmore.As I have said before my family folklore has it that during /after thefamine my lot were involved in a government experiment (to diversify thecrops) to grow tobacco (of all things) . It failed as these things do ,theland did not support all the family so my lot left and worked in thetobaccoindustry in Liverpool. It could well be fiction to cloak other reasonsforemigrating. But if you ever get the chance perhaps you could ask the"localhistorians". Perhaps those at the scene of the event might have had awhiffof tobacco.until again , take care Eve


From:        Fatarm@aol.comAdd to Address Book   Date:        Thu, 22 Oct 1998 12:29:08 EDT Subject:        [CRYAN-L] Tom Crean and Ireland's Polar Stars    To:

>From the RTE Guide, 20-Dec-1996, again thanks to Caoimhghin:[in full]

Special Series:  Ireland's Polar Stars

Down in Annascaul in Kerry you can buy a drink in The South Pole Inn. Behindthe name lies a tale of pure heroism, idealism and derring-do that'llnevercome our way again.  Or not quite...Joe Duffy has the story and it's a great one to hear at the cold turnof theyear.  It's told over two programmes, just as a small group of Irishmensetsail into the Antarctic summer in a 23-foot replica wooden lifeboat. Theiraim?  To commemorate the litle-known deeds of two Irish polar heroes. Joeexplains:"Ernest Shackleton was of Anglo-Irish stock, the kind you'd expect toend upas an explorer.  Tom Crean was a countryman from Annascaul who ran away andjoined the Navy.  Crean ended up the last man on board Robert Scott'sship forthe Pole, but Scott didn't pick him for the fatal polar run.  He wasyoung andhad tremendous stamina; he might have made all the difference.  At anyrate hewas the first to discover the party frozen in their tent eight monthslater."Two years later Crean joined Shackleton for a cross-Antarcticexpedition.Their ship *Endurance* became ice-bound for a year with no aid coming(WWI wasin full fettle).  A crew of six (three of them Irish) took to the hugesouthern seas in a lifeboat in an extraordinary mid-winter rescue runto SouthGeorgia; and Crean, Shackleton and one other man went on to cross theislandand reach help.  They succeeded -- and all 47 crewmen were saved.  Creanreturned to Annascaul and opened the so-fittingly named pub [South PoleInn].The bravery medals he was awarded actually saved Crean's life duringthe Blackand Tan era:  a stranger-than-fiction story told on the programme.Talking to Joe are the crew of the commemorative expedition and membersofCrean's family.  Archives include an *Endurance* survivor's accountand, from1909, courtesy of a phonograph company, the voice of Ernest Shackleton.___________Sounds like a great radio program.  I'd be happy to send a copy of thepagethis description comes from to anyone interested (email me with your

snailmail address) -- sorry, no scanner.  It has a picture of Crean, hisInn, andthe replica lifeboat.


Date:        Thu, 22 Oct 1998 21:49:56 -0400 (EDT)  From:        simone samuel <>Add to Address Book Subject:        [CRYAN-L] corrections and minutiae    To:

Hi all interested,  Today I got some new hearsay info on my branch of the Crehan family.AllI have done with regard to genealogy in the last month is read this listand look up "genealogy" on my college library's computer catalog when aclass was cancelled; this comes from a lunch my mother had with sistersand sister-in-law.  For many years I have thought that my great grandmother was MargaretO'Donoghue Crehan, with a Walsh somewhere in her line. My mother'smemorywavers a lot but I never questioned this because she was certain. Well,she's certain now that her grandmother was *Catherine* something Crehan.No other sister ever thought differently, although her brother andsister-in-law named their daughter Margaret after her. And her maidennamewas either Logan or Walsh. Apparently someone told my mother thatO'Donoghues in a long ago obituary were her grandmother's Bronxiancousins, and my mother assumed that this must be her grandmother'smaiden name. This is why I need to start interviewingother family members and investing money if I really want to find stuffout. She's not even a Crehan by blood, but it was the biggest thing Ifound out today and you never know what someone will make a connectionwith.  I also found out that my grandfather, Arthur Crehan, had brothersnamedLawrence and James, which brings the total of names we know in thatfamilyto ten (others are Augustine (Augustus?,) John, Catherine, Helen, Julia,Mary, and Margaret.)   My aunt-in-law who was in Roscommon in the 80s with my uncle says thatthe Crehans she met were all Creans, and they knew of our branch of thefamily so maybe we were without the 'h' back in Ireland. Never surewithout actually putting some research in, though. It's just niceknowingI may have a closer connection to more of the list members than Ithought.I also learned that my great-grandparents met and married in the US.  Finally, the pastor of my aunt-in-law's parish showed her grown son anold photo which looked, they said, exactly like his 13-year-old son.Thenthe priest told him that this boy's name was Crehan. My cousin wasinterested enough in this to tell the story at home, but not to ask thepriest what the boy's first name had been. So, some male Crehan is intherecords of St. Rose of Lima Catholic elementary school in Brooklyn, NYfrom 1916.Totally amateur,Theresa Mary